# Our Society's Legacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643 "2006-12-26T18:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/1 "2006-12-26T18:42:18Z")
This could end up in **IMHO** , but there exists some room for debate. I got these couple paragraphs from an [article](http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061127/full/444534a.html) about the Antikytherian Mechanism: > [@](#): > > But if the tradition of geared mechanisms to show astronomical phenomena really survived for well over a millennium, the level of achievement within that tradition was at best static. The clockwork of medieval Europe became more sophisticated and more widely applied fairly quickly; in the classical Mediterranean, with the same technology available, nothing remotely similar happened. Why didn’t anyone do anything more useful with it in all that time? More specifically, why didn’t anyone work out earlier what the gift of hindsight seems to make obvious — that clockwork would be a good thing to make clocks with? > > Serafina Cuomo, a historian of science at Imperial College, London, thinks that it all depends on what you see as ‘useful’. The Greeks weren’t that interested in accurate timekeeping, she says. It was enough to tell the hour of the day, which the water-driven clocks of the time could already do fairly well. But they did value knowledge, power and prestige. She points out that there are various descriptions of mechanisms driven by hot air or water — and gears. But instead of developing a steam engine, say, the devices were used to demonstrate philosophical principles. The machines offered a deeper understanding of cosmic order, says David Sedley, a classicist at the University of Cambridge, UK. “There’s nothing surprising about the fact that their best technology was used for demonstrating the laws of astronomy. It was deep-rooted in their culture.” The question comes at the end of the paragraphs. The Greeks, at least according to David Sedley, valued astronomy so much, all their technology was geared towards understanding more about it. What, then, does our society sink its money into? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/2 "2006-12-26T18:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] What, then, does our society sink its money into? [/QUOTE] Computers. Seriously. Originally, computers were invented to perform certain tasks that they did better and faster than humans. Now, computers are simply for being faster and better than the previous generation. Computers have become an end in and of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/3 "2006-12-26T18:49:51Z")
High-speed pizza delivery. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/4 "2006-12-26T18:59:49Z")
Paris Hilton, Hugh Hefner (“THE GIRLS NEXT DOOR”), Howard Stern, and other hallmarks of our advanced state of “culture”? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/5 "2006-12-26T20:09:39Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] The question comes at the end of the paragraphs. The Greeks, at least according to David Sedley, valued astronomy so much, all their technology was geared towards understanding more about it. What, then, does our society sink its money into? [/QUOTE] Entertainment of the “lowest common denominator” type, and as mindless, materialistic, and tasteless as possible. Not a very cheerful prospect for our legacy. I guess I could think of something happier, but I’d have to give it some thought. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/6 "2006-12-26T20:18:48Z")
Remember that to the common high-school-educated person nowadays who knows just a little about them, the “legacy” of the ancient Greeks is not philosophy nor astronomy nor mathematics, but pederasty. The “legacy” of the Romans is not refined legal codes nor great feats of engineering, but gladiatorial combats. And if American civilization is remembered a thousand years after it falls, all but scholars will remember it for something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/7 "2006-12-26T20:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Remember that to the common high-school-educated person nowadays who knows just a little about them, the “legacy” of the ancient Greeks is not philosophy nor astronomy nor mathematics, but pederasty. The “legacy” of the Romans is not refined legal codes nor great feats of engineering, but gladiatorial combats. And if American civilization is remembered a thousand years after it falls, all but scholars will remember it for something along those lines. [/QUOTE] What if we had an ice age and life stopped? A few million years down the road, when the next life forms excavate our remains and see what we’ve built, they’ll see remnants of our way of life. They’ll see monumental sports museums, tall buildings, or at least the remnants of the two. Then they’ll look all over the globe and find some slight variations of the same thing. Then they’ll get to Vegas and really be thrown for a loop. I think that we’ve deified Sport. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/8 "2006-12-27T00:31:34Z")
entertaining, killing & sex ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/9 "2006-12-27T01:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] Entertainment of the “lowest common denominator” type, and as mindless, materialistic, and tasteless as possible. Not a very cheerful prospect for our legacy. I guess I could think of something happier, but I’d have to give it some thought. [/QUOTE] Who is to say the builders of the Antikythera mechanism were any different? Who is to say they didn’t build clocks, for that matter. The mistake is extrapolating so much from so very little physical evidence extant - obviously a clock would have been a simple matter to the manufacturer of such a device. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/10 "2006-12-27T11:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=Common Tater] Who is to say the builders of the Antikythera mechanism were any different? Who is to say they didn’t build clocks, for that matter. The mistake is extrapolating so much from so very little physical evidence extant - obviously a clock would have been a simple matter to the manufacturer of such a device. [/QUOTE] We know the Greeks knew about a simple steam turbine, also that they appear to have built a mechanical astrolabe (sp ?) I first saw mention of the latter in a book by Erich Von Daeniken ( joke ) but recently there has been a fuss about something that is either the same thing or another example. Supposedly Daedelus was ‘toymaker’ to the King of Minos, and I’ve seen stuff about some pretty sophisticated autonatoms that he supposed to have made. I found this on him, which is not up to much: > **[Daedalus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daedalus)** > > In Greek mythology, Daedalus (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}UK: /ˈdiːdələs/, US: /ˈdɛdələs/ ⓘ; Greek: Ancient Greek: Δαίδαλος, romanized: Daídalos, Etruscan: Taitale, lit. 'skillful craftsman', 'cunning worker' or 'finely worked') was a skillful architect and craftsman, seen as a symbol of wisdom, knowledge and power. He is t The n... However if a bunch of WWII prisoners in Coldidz could produce a viable glider, then it seems likely that a Greek ‘Leonardo’ could have done something similar. The story I’ve heard is that the Greeks had plenty of slave labour, so mechanization was just a diversion for them. Personally I reckon that it was down to the presence/absence of large quantities of coal and iron ore. My understanding is that both the French and Germans were mechanically more sophisticated than the UK, but the relatively stable UK environment and the abundance of the necessary raw materials led to making really big and useful toys out of iron and steel. ---
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-societys-legacy/385643/11 "2006-12-28T00:37:04Z")
To quote Eisenhower [In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.](http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html) The military-industrial complex is not exactly original to the US, but is our legacy to the world, whether sought or unsought.