# Out of control biting dog - advice? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537 "2017-05-13T15:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/21 "2017-05-13T19:50:47Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I won’t tolerate an aggressive dog, if a dog snaps at me I will instantly turn on him and let him no without a doubt I am bigger and stronger and dangerous. That is exactly how it would be handled in nature and in most cases they respond to it. If I don’t see a rapid change I will put the dog down. Same with potty training, just let him know you won’t tolerate it. He has to know you are the boss. Yeah. A lot of folk around here will object to “dominance” discipline, but I’m with you. A dog MIGHT get away with biting me once. > [@](#): > > I love him to pieces but at this point he’s honestly making my life a misery. This I don’t get. The dog is supposed to enhance your life, not detract from it. If you truly have been trying for 5 months, and this dog is not housebroken and is biting you repeatedly and acting aggressively towards other dogs, either you are doing something horribly wrong, or the dog has something wrong with it. I’d get rid of the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/22 "2017-05-13T20:02:32Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I won’t tolerate an aggressive dog, if a dog snaps at me I will instantly turn on him and let him no without a doubt I am bigger and stronger and dangerous. That is exactly how it would be handled in nature… Username/post combo of the day. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/23 "2017-05-13T20:13:21Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I won’t tolerate an aggressive dog, if a dog snaps at me I will instantly turn on him and let him no without a doubt I am bigger and stronger and dangerous. That is exactly how it would be handled in nature and in most cases they respond to it. If I don’t see a rapid change I will put the dog down. Same with potty training, just let him know you won’t tolerate it. He has to know you are the boss. I applaud your post (and I agree with you). If this dog is a threat to people who are just walking by, its a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/24 "2017-05-13T20:41:34Z")
> [@LadyMondegreen](#): > > Is neutering going to make a difference here? What is going on? I’ve had dogs my whole life and NEVER met such an aggressive personality. English cocker spaniels are supposed to be loving, devoted and gentle! Are they really? My mother had one for fifteen years, he was a complete reprobate. Mom is disabled and trains her dogs to bring in the newspaper - this one would do so and not drop the paper until the expected treat was in sight. Then throughout the day he would steal other things off tables - mail, paperbacks, homework - and hold those hostage as well until he was bought off with a treat. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/25 "2017-05-13T20:45:55Z")
Cockers spaniels are one of the worst about biting. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/26 "2017-05-13T20:53:31Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > Are they really? My mother had one for fifteen years, he was a complete reprobate. Mom is disabled and trains her dogs to bring in the newspaper - this one would do so and not drop the paper until the expected treat was in sight. Then throughout the day he would steal other things off tables - mail, paperbacks, homework - **and hold those hostage as well until he was bought off with a treat**. Haha! My dog (German Shepherd) sometimes decides to pick up a “stick” (read: tree) and thrash all around with it, running by me on the path and nearly taking me out with it. Not wanting to be mean and make her give up her fun, I would offer her a trade - leave the stick and I’ll give you a cookie instead. This arrangement worked well until one day I saw her go up to a giant stick, put her paw on it and then look at me. Then I realized how well she had trained me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/27 "2017-05-13T21:57:24Z")
Aww, I can’t think badly of a GSD. My last one would rearrange my backyard all the time, especially the rocks. Mom’s little dog knew he was doing wrong though, and like the OP said, didn’t give a damn. He’d steal something and duck and weave all over the place, just out of reach, _just_ a little faster than she could move around. I could catch him, but I’d about knock myself out diving under a table or something, then he’d bite me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/28 "2017-05-13T22:26:44Z")
This thread doesn’t have any pictures, which I’m pretty sure is illegal. Here is my beast when we were out on our walk, today: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/4174/33829431663_39acaa760e_z.jpg "Hannah in lush greenery") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/56821557@N06/33829431663/in/dateposted-public/) ---
**Author:** ![Zuzu\_s\_Petals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zuzu\_s\_Petals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zuzu_s_Petals)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/29 "2017-05-13T22:33:32Z")
_waves hello_ I’m the friend who advised LadyMondegreen to post here. Just as I expected, there’s loads of great advice. Thanks, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/30 "2017-05-13T22:55:22Z")
Question for the OP: where did you get this dog? was it from a reliable breeder? a rescue? Did you see the parents? at least the mother? I know you are in the UK, but you probably have something that is the equivalent to US “backyard breeders.” They produce unreliable dogs that often have personality defects from inbreeding, overbreeding the mother, or not paying attention to what traits the parents’ have other than that superficially, they look OK. Is it possible that despite your best efforts, you got slipped a backyard breeder dog? they are sometimes called “puppy mills” in the US as well. I don’t know a UK term. That doesn’t condemn your dog-- I know people who have rescued puppy mill dogs, and they have worked out. But he might take more work. Neutering him won’t alter his personality in that, if he likes a particular toy, he will hate that toy afterwards, or if he likes a particular food, he will reject it, or his sleep patterns will change, or anything like that, but in male dogs, it does reduce aggression, because they are not driven to compete for mates (and yes, he is old enough for that). Also, he won’t run up to other dogs, ignoring recall to such an extent, because he won’t have the mating drive. > [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Anyway, I used to think that pronged collars were cruel, but the trainer explained to me that it mimics a mother dog nipping at the puppy to get him to behave. We kept the dog on a leash whenever he wasn’t in his crate…for at least a month if memory serves. He was actually bad walking on the leash & it sounds like your dog doesn’t have that problem. But you can use it to teach him how to behave around other dogs. A swift tug on the leash when he’s misbehaving will teach him pretty quickly what you expect. I had a pronged collar for my Pit/GSD cross. She was boundless energy as a puppy, and a young dog. When she was around eight months old, I wondered sometimes if I’d made a mistake getting her; she was the ADHD dog at obedience school. But by the time she was two, she was the best behaved dog on the block. By three, she knew about 100 words, and would walk up to people and sit at their feet when she wanted to be pet. People wouldn’t understand what she wanted, and when I’d explain, they’d say they never saw such a “polite” dog before. By four she had a large repertoire of tricks. I was afraid to use the prong collar at first, but it worked miracles with her. Plus, prong collars close only to a certain point, unlike choke collars, which keep closing, and can literally choke a dog. Prong collars are a better attempt to duplicate what a mother dog does than a choke collar is. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Cockers spaniels are one of the worst about biting. This be true. I did lots of research, and while Pit Bulls unfortunately get falsely “credited” with bites that aren’t there’s (in one study, it turned out that some police officers thought “pit bull” was a synonym for “vicious dog,” and not shorthand for a type of breed, so any dog that bit was a “pit bull” in their reports, even it it was really a Border Collie). Anyway, the breed with the most bites in several studies was the Cocker Spaniel, although because they are small, their bites did not need medical attention as often as the bites of bigger dogs, so it took a lot of research to track down this fact. It came from interviewing breeders at shows and asking how many had been “nipped, bit, or [some other word I don’t remember]” by their dog, and how often. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/31 "2017-05-13T23:16:09Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I had a pronged collar for my Pit/GSD cross. > > I was afraid to use the prong collar at first, but it worked miracles with her. Plus, prong collars close only to a certain point, unlike choke collars, which keep closing, and can literally choke a dog. Prong collars are a better attempt to duplicate what a mother dog does than a choke collar is. As you can see from my picture above, I use a prong collar for Hannah. It’s a bit embarrassing because I worry that people see it and assume it’s because she’s vicious but she’s not. It’s good in situations where I need complete control of her, like if there are shrieking children running around which she finds super enticing. A quick “snap” on the collar reminds her to walk quietly, calmly and with no barking. The collar doesn’t stay tight but just makes a quick biting feeling around her neck, like a adult dog disciplining a puppy. In the picture you can see that it’s very loose around her neck when she’s off leash. I don’t trust choke chains because they can tighten and stay tight even when there is nothing pulling on it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/32 "2017-05-14T00:51:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I won’t tolerate an aggressive dog, if a dog snaps at me I will instantly turn on him and let him no without a doubt I am bigger and stronger and dangerous. That is exactly how it would be handled in nature and in most cases they respond to it. If I don’t see a rapid change I will put the dog down. Same with potty training, just let him know you won’t tolerate it. He has to know you are the boss. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > We had a young Lab that morphed from cute pup to demon doglette over the space of a few months. She was not remotely as bad as the OP’s dog, but she was highly resistant to heel training and prone to occasionally leap up and rip our clothes with her teeth if annoyed or just for the hell of it. It was to the point that Mrs. J. half seriously suggested putting her out with the recycling. > > Instead I proposed we take her to our kennel, whose main business was training dogs, especially for police and security use. We boarded her there for a couple of weeks under the tutelage of a young woman who was very good with dogs, and who worked a near miracle during that time. We got back a dog that was much better behaved, walked at heel, followed other commands and no longer tried to shred our clothes. > > If this is an affordable step for you and you know of a reliable trainer in the area, it might be worth a try. This and this. Right now you, the human, are the prisoner of a psychopathic dog. That is a deeply defective situation. Fix it. A the first real bite the dog would have been seriously injured if I was the bitee, whether or not the dog was mine. At the second I would have killed it on the spot. Euthanasia my ass; I’d have disemboweled it with my bare hands. You owe yourself, your neighbors, and their children an attack-free dog. Fix this today. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/33 "2017-05-14T01:12:03Z")
Not a dog owner or expert but I think there are times when you have to step back and look at the big picture. I realize there is the impulse to save a dog if possible but a dog behaving like the one you mention is not only going to be handful personally but a huge legal liability. Some people are hyper aggressive assholes and I’d imagine some dogs are like this as well. If the goal here is to have a companionable animal you have huge amounts of work to be done that may not even take long term. I’m not clear how the law works in the UK re biting animals but in the US even a nip against another person or their dog could cost you hundreds to many, many thousands of dollars. I would not be willing to take that risk with a non-cooperative dog. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/34 "2017-05-14T05:47:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You owe yourself, your neighbors, and their children an attack-free dog. Fix this today. This. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/35 "2017-05-14T12:02:50Z")
Let me clarify that by “fix this” I don’t necessarily mean you must have the dog killed. What I mean is you ought to take it \*today \*to a kennel that can host the dog and has the expertise to assess the dog for re-habituation. And if they think they can succeed, they you must spend what it takes to have them re-habituate the dog while it lives at their kennel. Then once the dog “graduates” (or flunks out) have the courage and integrity to honestly assess whether they succeeded, or whether you have an incorrigible case on your hands. An incorrigible case would need to be killed. Or you can save a lot of time, money, and heartache: simply have this dog killed today and get a non-defective replacement dog. The choice is yours. Either way, put the dog in a crate and don’t let it out until you’ve solved this. It doesn’t belong loose in your home and certainly not on a leash nor running loose in public like it is. As people here sometimes say about other people: “When someone shows/tells you who they really are, it’s your job to listen carefully.” ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/36 "2017-05-14T12:55:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You owe yourself, your neighbors, and their children an attack-free dog. Fix this today. This. You simply cannot have a dog that bites and especially one off collar. > [@LadyMondegreen](#): > > I HATE that infuriating person with their uncontrollable dog who gets in your dog’s face and have always wondered why they don’t just keep them on the lead the whole time… now I’m in danger of becoming that person! You aren’t in danger of becoming that person, you _are_ that person. You need to take care of it now. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/37 "2017-05-14T15:29:39Z")
> [@LadyMondegreen](#): > > Oh, he doesn’t give a damn. I’ve never had a dog that didn’t care if I was angry or not before, and it’s so strange. Like a cat in a dog’s body. Is he deaf, or mostly so? Have you carefully tested this? ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/38 "2017-05-14T16:19:57Z")
Okay. [ol] [li]Stop the off-leash parks. Your dog is not ready for them[/li][li]You may need to muzzle for a time. [/li][li]Are you crate-training? [/li][li]What did you try to curb the nipping originally? [/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/39 "2017-05-14T16:29:41Z")
I’m in the “biting dogs aren’t acceptable” camp Neuter first, if that doesn’t work I’d have it put down and try again. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537/40 "2017-05-14T19:09:30Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Cockers spaniels are one of the worst about biting. No cite handy, but I’ve read that cocker statistics are swayed by a popularity spike that occurred (in the 70s?), coupled with an incredible predisposition to painful ear infections. People reach for the dog’s head to pet it and it bites. In regards to the value of professional trainers, I’ve mentioned [our old dog Ella](http://s681.photobucket.com/user/kayaker01/media/EllaCap_zpsxsbkk94f.jpg.html?sort=3&o=49) before. She was a five year old dog in a shelter, facing euthanasia after being adopted out, then returned, numerous times. We decided to give her a try, knowing that she would be put down if we brought her back. After a couple of weeks we were ready to throw in the towel. She was aggressive toward strangers (especially little, old, greyhaired ladies), and was scaring me as well. I talked with a friend who is a cop and a master trainer. He came over with his bite suit and we worked with the dog. He identified some subtle mistakes we were making (tensing up when approaching a stranger was one). He suggested daily exercises and we worked her hard. We intensified our training efforts. Gradually things began improving. Today, eight years later, I could walk her off lead through a busy playground and she’d never give me reason for concern. She is nearly perfect, other than her continued hatred of old women and a fear of thunderstorms. I’ve treated minor wounds, trimmed her nails, etc. It would be interesting to find out what fucked her up early in life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/out-of-control-biting-dog-advice/786537.md?page=3)