# Outcome of nuclear escalation and general Nuclear concerns Ukraine - Russia
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion
**Created:** [April 4, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302 "2022-04-04T23:08:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/163 "2022-04-19T20:24:48Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> If you think the Southern Hemisphere would be fine after a full nuclear exchange, that tells me you don’t know squat about the complexity of global supply chains, and how complex networks will permanently fail if damaged enough.
If you think that just because global supply chains fail, the human race just sits there and dies, that tells me you don’t know shit about people and how resilient they can be when times get hard.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/164 "2022-04-19T20:34:43Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> If you think that just because global supply chains fail, the human race just sits there and dies, that tells me you don’t know shit about people and how resilient they can be when times get hard.
Yeah it’s cool to puff up your chest and talk about a resilient can-do spirit, but that doesn’t get you very far when your entire continent’s society was founded on the assumption of abundant imports of food and energy, and one day they simply halt.
To be clear, the human race likely does survive. Existing hunter-gatherers, subsistence farmers, and pastoralists will be largely OK. In a few months, everybody else will starve or freeze to death. In a generation, they and all their works will be forgotten. It will be the end of this history and (maybe) the beginning of a new one.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/165 "2022-04-19T21:19:22Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> You think Australia would be fine? Australia has essentially no domestic energy or food production.
You do realize that Australia was inhabited before the development of a global supply chain, right?
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/166 "2022-04-19T21:19:27Z")
Unless of course, we do _not_ retaliate against a nuclear attack.
Then instead of pretty much everyone being set back to pre-industrial era, everyone is instead now oppressed by Russian expansion.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/167 "2022-04-19T21:28:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
> >
> > You think Australia would be fine? Australia has essentially no domestic energy or food production.
>
> You do realize that Australia was inhabited before the development of a global supply chain, right?
You do realize that back in those days there were far, far, far fewer people in Australia, right? Fewer mouths to feed. Also, those same people had some very good survival skills. Modern suburbanites… not so much.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/168 "2022-04-19T21:38:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> Then instead of pretty much everyone being set back to pre-industrial era, everyone is instead now oppressed by Russian expansion.
Everyone? Russia is barely able to oppress Ukraine. Russia is a weak country incapable of dominating the world. You give them far too much credit.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/169 "2022-04-19T21:42:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Russia is a weak country incapable of dominating the world. You give them far too much credit.
“Do as we say or we’ll nuke you” goes a long way when the only other nuclear power has decided it’s too afraid to use them.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/170 "2022-04-19T21:45:39Z")
If Putin said, “Lift the sanctions or we will nuke New York,” what do you think Biden would do?
I’ll tell you what i think he would do. Tighten the screws. It is working.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/171 "2022-04-19T21:48:13Z")
And then when he nukes New York anyway and we respond by doing nothing because something something hunter gatherers?
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### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/172 "2022-04-19T21:51:05Z")
And here’s another factor: North Korea is getting enthusiastic about their own nuclear program, and IMO it’s clear the only deterrent they’re going to respond to is “yes, if you do start throwing those, we WILL return the favor”. Do we really want to roll over and cave in to Putin because he’s rattling his nukes, thus teaching North Korea they have no REAL opposition to be concerned about if they decide Seoul or Tokyo should become a glow-in-the-dark parking lot?
> **[North Korea tests tactical weapon designed for strengthening nuclear capability](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/north-korea-tests-tactical-weapon-designed-for-strengthening-nuclear-capability)**
>
> The 13th weapons test this year came amid concerns that North Korea may soon conduct an even larger provocation.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/173 "2022-04-19T21:51:57Z")
nm nm nm
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/174 "2022-04-19T21:53:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> And then when he nukes New York anyway and we respond by doing nothing because something something hunter gatherers?
Because you think there shouldn’t be any US policy difference between nuking New York and nuking Kiev?
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/175 "2022-04-19T21:56:13Z")
The only sure way to prevent Russia from nuking anyone is to ensure that they understand we will respond in exactly the same way as if they had attacked us directly, yes.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/176 "2022-04-19T21:58:04Z")
If they use a nuke on anyone, that policy has failed. Nothing to be gained by committing suicide.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/177 "2022-04-19T22:00:41Z")
If they nuke anyone, it’ll be because they thought we were too chickenshit to follow through, possibly because of people signaling out loud that they aren’t really gonna use nukes.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/178 "2022-04-19T22:59:42Z")
Or, Putin is just fucking evil. Not everything he does is a direct consequence of US provocation.
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/179 "2022-04-19T23:03:48Z")
An expert on BBC’s daily Ukrainecast podcast made a really good point today. Every time Russia commits an atrocity they have blamed it on Ukraine. However if they used a tactical nuclear weapon they would have to own it. So she thought it really would be a proper last resort.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/180 "2022-04-20T00:04:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Or, Putin is just fucking evil.
All the more reason not to let him rule the post-nuclear world.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/181 "2022-04-20T00:50:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> All the more reason not to let him rule the post-nuclear world.
We had to destroy the world to save it.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outcome-of-nuclear-escalation-and-general-nuclear-concerns-ukraine-russia/962302/182 "2022-04-20T01:03:05Z")
The only person talking about “destroying the world” is you.
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