# Outraged New Jerseyians demand that government decide for them! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 18, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202 "2006-05-18T00:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/21 "2006-05-18T12:48:42Z")
**Cheesesteak** writes: > [@](#): > > Screw the full-serve issue, I just want them to fix the damn signs. > I swear I get lost more often and make more wrong turns in NJ than anywhere else I’ve ever driven, mostly because the road signs are placed to be as confusing as possible You’ve clearly never driven in the Boston area, where the philosophy is plainly “If you don’t know how to get where you’re going _without_ signs, you don’t deserve to get there!” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/22 "2006-05-18T13:40:39Z")
**CalMeacham** , where in MA can’t you pump your own? > [@Jackmannii](#): > > You’d think the rest of the country was rife with explosions, customers constantly reeking with gasoline odors, dazed elderly people unable to figure out the mysteries of gas pumps, Ninja Motorists skulking around with the Wrong Containers etc. You failed to mention male models having gas fights. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/23 "2006-05-18T13:49:43Z")
**tdn** asks: > [@](#): > > CalMeacham, where in MA can’t you pump your own? **Billerica** , for one. Scroll down to Article XXII.2: [http://www.billericanews.com/laws/genlaw.htm#AX221](http://www.billericanews.com/laws/genlaw.htm#AX221) (Not where I work, but the easiest reference I could find on the 'net. So there’s more than one locality with this rule). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/24 "2006-05-18T13:53:42Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > Now I am terrified. _Terrified_, I tell you. What if a New Jersey resident drives to my state, and has to stop for gas? I’ve got a solution. We’ll have 6,000 National Guard troops patrol the border of New Jersey and prevent any illegal immigration from New Jersey into the US. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/25 "2006-05-18T14:41:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > **Billerica** , for one. Scroll down to Article XXII.2: Wow. I wonder what posessed them to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/26 "2006-05-18T14:43:18Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > As has already been pointed out, small shops (which is where anyone who cares about the price of gas buys it) only have one person, regardless of whether it’s full service or self-serve. This isn’t a matter of wanting the government to decide for us. It’s a matter of wanting to continue the convenience we have always enjoyed. Choice, my ass! I pay less for gasoline than anyone I know who doesn’t live in NJ, and I get full service! Why in heaven’s name would I want to change that? Are you sure about that? According to [this](http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Accountability/fueltax/GasTaxComparisonReport_Dec05.pdf) (Warning:PDF!), New Jersey had the third lowest state tax rate on gasoline as of December 2005. However, according to the [AAA](http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp) this morning, New Jersey had the 16th highest average gas price in the country (based on regular gas). You’re relatively low for your region (Vermont, Maine, Pennslyvania, and W. Virginia are lower, all others in the NE are higher), but you are above the national average (by .02). In fact, Florida which has the 10th highest tax rate (16.15 cents/g higher than NJ - in fact more than double) has an average gas price .06 **lower**. I think you’re paying those pump jockeys a little more than you think you are. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/27 "2006-05-18T14:44:38Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > But I would just like to point out that 1400 complaints out of a population of [8,414,350](http://www.50states.com/newjerse.htm) is hardly indicative of anything other than “A handful of stupid people do exist”. Yeah, and fully 1397 of those are not subscribed to the SDMB, it would seem. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@Southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southpaw)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/28 "2006-05-18T15:08:16Z")
Am I missing something? AFAIK the governor isn’t suggesting converting over completely to self-serve, only allowing it at some stations. > [@Article in OP](#): > > Gov. Jon Corzine came up with a novel plan last month to try to ease the pain: allow self-service at some stations along the New Jersey Turnpike and see if prices dip. So Jerseyites will still have the option of using the full-serve pumps. Why the uproar? If you don’t want to pump your own gas, you still have the option of not doing so. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/29 "2006-05-18T15:27:08Z")
> [@Southpaw](#): > > Am I missing something? AFAIK the governor isn’t suggesting converting over completely to self-serve, only allowing it at some stations. > So Jerseyites will still have the option of using the full-serve pumps. Why the uproar? If you don’t want to pump your own gas, you still have the option of not doing so. :rolleyes: There really is not any uproar in the state at this point. The Op is a pitting something that is already old news here. The initial uproar was due to some headline reporting that made it sound like Governor Corzine was doing away with full-serve at all stations. He even admitted he presented the proposal poorly. He has tabled it. No one I know is worried about the safety issue of pumping gas, there is basically no real safety issue as 48 states and most of the world can pump gas safely. This all boils down to most people in Jersey apparently like the fact we have Full-service. Few people think the saving would amount to anything significant. For myself, I get around 10 gallons of gas 78 times a year. I usually use a small station where there cannot be a price reduction as they only have one person running the station at a time. Even if I filled up on the Parkway rest stop Corzine’s own proposal indicated the savings would max out to $.05 per gallon. I would save $39 for the entire year. In my case, the savings would be closer to $10. Does it make sense why if I like full-serve, I might prefer that we avoid changing the law? Jim ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/30 "2006-05-18T15:34:25Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > There really is not any uproar in the state at this point. The Op is a pitting something that is already old news here. > The initial uproar was due to some headline reporting that made it sound like Governor Corzine was doing away with full-serve at all stations. He even admitted he presented the proposal poorly. He has tabled it. > No one I know is worried about the safety issue of pumping gas, there is basically no real safety issue as 48 states and most of the world can pump gas safely. > This all boils down to most people in Jersey apparently like the fact we have Full-service. Few people think the saving would amount to anything significant. > > For myself, I get around 10 gallons of gas 78 times a year. I usually use a small station where there cannot be a price reduction as they only have one person running the station at a time. Even if I filled up on the Parkway rest stop Corzine’s own proposal indicated the savings would max out to $.05 per gallon. I would save $39 for the entire year. In my case, the savings would be closer to $10. > Does it make sense why if I like full-serve, I might prefer that we avoid changing the law? > > Jim Thanks Jim. I couldn’t be bothered to explain the sheer :dubious: I experienced at this thread. Couldn’t be less of a real issue. But yeah, most of us like the full serve thing. Not because we like lots of extra rules, but because it smells way better inside the car than out. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/31 "2006-05-18T15:39:30Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Does it make sense why if I like full-serve, I might prefer that we avoid changing the law? Not really. As has been pointed out, it wouldn’t become compulsory for you to pump, only optional. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/32 "2006-05-18T15:54:36Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Not really. As has been pointed out, it wouldn’t become compulsory for you to pump, only optional. What does your state charge for Service vs. Self-Service? I recall the difference being quite a bit more than $.05 per gallon. We would end up saving only a little with self-service but paying more for full-service because that is the nature of how gas stations do business from my observations. BTW: Why do you or anyone else outside of Jersey actually care about this minor and tabled issue? Can’t you find some fresh minor news story to be upset about? 😉 Jim {For the record, I am not one of the 1400 to protest the proposal} ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/33 "2006-05-18T16:35:38Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > What does your state charge for Service vs. Self-Service? I recall the difference being quite a bit more than $.05 per gallon. It’s been about 10 years since I’ve owned a car, so I don’t really pay attention to that. But as I recall, it was probably 5-10 cents per gallon. So on a full tank, I’d save a buck or two. To me it was worth the money to not get gas in my shoes (I’m terrible with the pumps), but some people go out of their way to save that money. So to me it’s worth it to have the choice. Everyone’s happy. > [@](#): > > BTW: Why do you or anyone else outside of Jersey actually care about this minor and tabled issue? Can’t you find some fresh minor news story to be upset about? Sure, let’s see what local things are going on around here… OMG in Billerica you aren’t allowed to pump your own gas!!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/34 "2006-05-18T17:03:14Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > What does your state charge for Service vs. Self-Service? I recall the difference being quite a bit more than $.05 per gallon. We would end up saving only a little with self-service but paying more for full-service because that is the nature of how gas stations do business from my observations. > > BTW: Why do you or anyone else outside of Jersey actually care about this minor and tabled issue? Can’t you find some fresh minor news story to be upset about? 😉 > > Jim {For the record, I am not one of the 1400 to protest the proposal} It’s more than 5 cents, but I can’t give exact amounts. Personally, I love a trip to Jersey (complete with Passport stamping at the bridges and tunnels) to get me some dirt cheap gas in a 20 below blizzard. While I think the law is foolish, I really don’t care one way or the other. The excuses for keeping the law - well, they’re just downright laughably stupid. So I laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/35 "2006-05-18T17:03:31Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s been about 10 years since I’ve owned a car, so I don’t really pay attention to that. But as I recall, it was probably 5-10 cents per gallon. So on a full tank, I’d save a buck or two. To me it was worth the money to not get gas in my shoes (I’m terrible with the pumps), but some people go out of their way to save that money. So to me it’s worth it to have the choice. Everyone’s happy. More like 50 cents a gallon, I suspect. And the station I go to is manned by one guy - whether they do full service or not. Yet I’m sure they too would jack up the price for service if it became legal to do so. This wouldn’t be the freedom to pump your gas. It would be the freedom for the gas stations to jack up the prices on having gas pumped for you, with little or no corresponding fall in the cost of gasoline to the people. As as been asked before, why do you people _care_? If you don’t want \*your \* gas pumped, fine! Let us be! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/36 "2006-05-18T17:16:35Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > More like 50 cents a gallon, I suspect. Where do you get this figure? It’s really hard getting this info online, and it seems to vary widely by area, but I did find [this](http://www.brocktonmass.com/news/publish/5000643.shtml): > [@](#): > > Today’s local gas prices and their ranges are as follows: > > Self Serve Grade Full Serve > $2.409 ($2.279-$2.549) Regular Unleaded $2.519 ($2.299-$2.739) > $2.519 ($2.419-$2.649) Midgrade Unleaded $2.629 ($2.399-$2.839) > $2.609 ($2.519-$2.749) Premium Unleaded $2.729 ($2.499-$2.939) > $2.719 ($2.559-$2.899) Diesel $2.809 ($2.759-$2.999) So 11 cents seems to be about the norm, at least in Souther MA. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/37 "2006-05-18T17:48:00Z")
On occasion I have the opportunity to drive to Washington state to visit my daughter, and I consciously plan my gas stops so that I don’t have to stop in Oregon for gas. Yes, I am old enough to remember the days before self-service even existed. But now it is just so much easier for me to swipe my credit card, pump the gas and be gone, rather than having to wait while the attendant comes out, puts the gas in, then takes my card away and brings it back with the receipt. It’s even worse if he’s waiting on 3 or 4 other people at the same time. I just don’t see the rationale of the 2 states (and some municipalities as **Cal Meacham** has pointed out) denying consumers the right to pump their own gas. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/38 "2006-05-18T17:52:10Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Where do you get this figure? > > It’s really hard getting this info online, and it seems to vary widely by area, but I did find [this](http://www.brocktonmass.com/news/publish/5000643.shtml): > > So 11 cents seems to be about the norm, at least in Souther MA. Driving a lot across the country, I found 10-15 cents to be the normal difference, so those figures seem to be accurate to me. 50 cents is definitely much higher than I have ever seen. **D\_Odds** : Which excuses for keeping the law did you mean, the ones in the articles or the ones I and other Dopers mentioned? I just want to know if we should be getting angry with you for laughing at us. Jim {For the record, when I am out of state, I pump my own gas and I don’t mind it, but I am almost never driving out of state when it is snowing.} ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/39 "2006-05-18T17:55:34Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > This wouldn’t be the freedom to pump your gas. It would be the freedom for the gas stations to jack up the prices on having gas pumped for you . . . Does New Jersey currently have a ceiling on how much gas stations can charge for gas? If not, gas stations already have the freedom to “jack up the prices” as much as they want. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202/40 "2006-05-18T17:55:36Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > This wouldn’t be the freedom to pump your gas. It would be the freedom for the gas stations to jack up the prices on having gas pumped for you, with little or no corresponding fall in the cost of gasoline to the people. This makes no sense. As has been noted time and again here: 1. self-service prices should fall because your current prices already include the cost of full service; 2. your prices are lower because of a low tax, which has nothing to do with self service, and still yet they’re really not that low. Other than a slight decrease in the scale of full-service users, there should be nothing that would cause the cost of full service to increase – where do you get this “freedom . . . to jack up the prices on having gas pumped for you” nonsense? You’re already paying to have gas pumped for you. Furthermore, this “why do you care” shtick has got to stop. In case you haven’t notice, the majority of gassing (forgive the pun) on this board concerns things that shouldn’t matter to us but do because there are a bunch of anal retentive know-it-alls here (I say that with the utmost of love and respect for said anal retentive know-it-alls). Getting bound up about stupidity, whether it directly affects us or not, is this board’s pastime. Admit it. There is no good reason for the prohibition of self-service pumps. Furthermore, allowing self service pumps does not per se mean the elimination of full service pumps or even a price increase for said full service. However, this restriction on private businesses practices is unnecessary and makes your state look foolish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outraged-new-jerseyians-demand-that-government-decide-for-them/357202.md?page=3)