# Outside Cats **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 20, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696 "2021-06-20T18:39:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/42 "2021-06-22T19:19:27Z")
> **[Loss-et-al.-2013-Impact-of-free-ranging-domestic-cats-on-wildlife-in-U.S..pdf](https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Loss-et-al.-2013-Impact-of-free-ranging-domestic-cats-on-wildlife-in-U.S..pdf)** > > 270.36 KB "Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. " I agree with you @keeganst94 that cats are a scourge to wildlife, birds, frogs, snakes, voles, moles, chippies, flying squirrels, baby squirrels, rabbits, butterflies, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/43 "2021-06-22T22:41:32Z")
Very interesting paper. I’m still curious about estimates on how much predation is done by feral cats vs domestic ones; I’ve read recent estimates that the feral population in the US is as high as 160 million, rather higher than that paper’s estimates. Frankly, the feral predation needs to be addressed aggressively but that won’t fly in today’s culture. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/44 "2021-06-23T03:18:48Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Regardless of how it affects the longevity of the cat, outdoor cats are an environmental disaster I’m sorry, but this makes me laugh. I understand the concern about birds, whom I also love. Cats are predators, to be sure. When there is not enough prey, the number of predators becomes reduced, allowing the prey to increase in number and then the predators increase, and so the cycle goes. But which species has been an environmental disaster? The answer is humans. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/45 "2021-06-23T09:05:09Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Feral and semi-feral cats often don’t survive their first year, which brings down the average. The ones who make it through the first year have learned to avoid cars and not to sleep in the wrong spots in farm machinery, have learned about dogs and coyote and being stepped on by a cow, have managed to stay in or to find territory that provides shelter, food, and water, and have probably developed resistance to some of the local diseases. Yes, very true, I omitted the fact that cats on a farm or in the wild often don’t even make it to adulthood. Those that do, definitely have a shorter life than cats that are close to humans. Farm cats at least get fed, but in my experience most farmers don’t bother sending sick cats to the vet. House pets have the best deal. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/46 "2021-06-23T09:10:36Z")
> [@oldoaktree](#): > > Most cat GPS maps I have seen, such as the one below, bear this out. Though some roam a bit more. My comment was based on a German TV program, where urban cats with a GPS collar were tracked. I bought such a collar for one of my cats about a year and a half ago, but I could not get it to work. I could not get the home location to match my home. I finally sent it back. From what I can tell, my two cats patrol the nearby allotments and a couple of fields, but don’t seem to go more than about half a mile away. Since they have plenty of garden space to roam in, they seem happy to stay closer to home. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/47 "2021-06-23T10:15:36Z")
> [@oldoaktree](#): > > > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > > > stay with a few hundred yards of the house > > I think this is generally a factually true statement. > > Most cat GPS maps I have seen, such as the one below, bear this out. Though some roam a bit more. > > But outside is outside, it doesn’t matter how far from home they are. > > [BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22821639) > > ### [Secret life of the cat: The science of tracking our pets](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22821639) > > Alan Wilson, a Royal Veterinary College professor specialising in animal movement, explains the technology and science behind one of the largest ever research projects into domestic cat behaviour. I think your cite had a thing on the discovery channel where I watched a segment about a UK lady that had a cat that showed up on certain days and she couldn’t figure out where it went the rest of the week so they put a GPS in its collar and found out he had 1 or two different homes for each day of the week and followed a schedule that went in a 2-3 mile loop … .he even would acknowledge the different names each place had for him but only in the specific house …once all his owners found out about each other they made a facebook group so everyone knew what the little freeloader was up to … ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/48 "2021-06-23T10:35:22Z")
The cat with multiple homes/names was on “The Secret Life of the Cat” on BBC 2, not the Discovery Channel. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/49 "2021-06-23T11:30:56Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > … he had 1 or two different homes for each day of the week My aunt and uncle lived for some years in a large house that was split into two. I think it was aunt who officially owned the cats, but they had a habit of going to the other house and protesting that they were being starved and needed feeding immediately. Even when they had just cleaned out the feeding bowls at the other place. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/50 "2021-06-23T16:13:54Z")
Reminds me of a cat that used to live in my condo complex. He’d wander around and beg. We called him Moochie. Found out nearly a _year_ later that his name was Jim, and he was a feral a neighbor had taken in. He regularly patrolled the area and demanded treats for his “work.” We thought he was a pregnant female at first. When we found _he_ was just, well, a moocher and was getting regular meals, we stopped giving him treats. ---
**Author:** ![purple\_cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@purple\_cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purple_cow)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/51 "2021-06-23T17:29:19Z")
True for ferals, but not cats that are fed by people. They get plenty of food AND kill things for fun. I’ve seen 6-8 different cats in a neighborhood park that could maybe sustain 1 if they weren’t being fed by people. Every year the ground nesting birds (eg Wood Thrush) come in the spring, start singing, then disappear after a couple of weeks as they get killed/eaten. It’s excellent habitat but baby wood thrushes do not get made in the park. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/52 "2021-06-23T17:57:17Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > I’m sorry, but this makes me laugh. I understand the concern about birds, whom I also love. Cats are predators, to be sure. When there is not enough prey, the number of predators becomes reduced, allowing the prey to increase in number and then the predators increase, and so the cycle goes. Not with cats, since us humans feed them. Thus the population does not fluctuate, so yes, they are a environmental disaster. I wish people who stop denying this, and just keep their cats inside. It is amazing the amount of denial people will perform in order to scoop the litter box less. The solution to feral cats is TNR- Trap, Neuter, Release. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/53 "2021-06-23T18:02:52Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The cat with multiple homes/names was on “The Secret Life of the Cat” on BBC 2, not the Discovery Channel. While it was indeed a British production, it was shown in the U.S. on one of our science-oriented cable channels (I can’t remember offhand if it was, indeed, Discovery Channel, or maybe National Geographic Channel). ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/54 "2021-06-23T23:48:58Z")
##### **The Reality of Trap, Neuter, Release** (per the American Bird Conservancy) Trap, Neuter, Release (TNR) is a program by which feral cats are trapped, spayed or neutered, and then released into the environment. Rather than immediately reducing numbers through removal, TNR practitioners hope to slowly reduce populations over time. The scientific evidence regarding TNR clearly indicates that TNR programs are not an effective tool to reduce feral cat populations. Rather than slowly disappearing, studies have shown that [feral cat colonies persist and may actually increase in size](https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Castillo-and-Clarke-2003-TNR-ineffective-in-controlling-cat-colonies.pdf). [https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/trap-neuter-release/](https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/trap-neuter-release/) Interesting paper and website ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/55 "2021-06-23T23:54:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I wish people who stop denying this, and just keep their cats inside. It is amazing the amount of denial people will perform in order to scoop the litter box less. > > The solution to feral cats is TNR- Trap, Neuter, Release. I’m not denying. And, for the record, my cats are indoor cats but ferals and barn cats will follow the protocol that nature supplies. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/56 "2021-06-23T23:56:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not with cats, since us humans feed them. You also seem to think that cats are a separate species than feral cats. They simply aren’t and not all cats are fed by humans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/57 "2021-06-24T00:26:41Z")
When SWMBO decreed that (the late ☹ ) Tonka would be an indoor cat, I enclosed the covered portion of the deck. [![](https://i.imgur.com/MNOYIDb.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/MNOYIDb.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/58 "2021-06-24T00:33:50Z")
Huh, I’m surprised. It seems to have worked in my neighborhood. I used to foster stray kittens (to be neutered and adopted out as pets) and i know the same shelters were working on a TNR program for adult feral cats. Sometimes we got semi-feral kittens, trapped just after they were weaned, and tamed them. But I’ve been on the list for a couple of shelters for months, now, and they have no need for foster homes. Not a lot of stray cats breeding around here. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/59 "2021-06-24T00:49:18Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > My indoor/outdoor cats nearly always live to between 16 and 20. > > Ditto. Except not _nearly always_ , but _always_ . I think I’m on my 14th permanent cat now. Wait, what? Your 14 cats have ALWAYS lived to between 16 and 20. So if you had three cats at a time, and they lived to the minimum of 16, that’s about 5 X 16 = you have had this succession of amazing cats for 80 years. Are you 100 years old or do you typically have a bunch o’ cats at once? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/60 "2021-06-24T01:26:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Wait, what? 45 years of being owned by bunches of cats. Some of them were older when we got them. But you’re right, I overcounted. After making a list, there were only 12. That’s not counting the many foster kittens. I’m down to 1 very annoying cat right now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696/61 "2021-06-24T02:03:12Z")
A lot of humans feed feral cats, also. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outside-cats/944696.md?page=4)