# outsourcing airplane maintenance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415 "2007-03-10T22:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/41 "2007-03-15T21:56:24Z")
[http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/airline\_maintenance.html](http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/airline_maintenance.html) Heres another. This time about the original subject. Snark on this one. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/42 "2007-03-15T21:59:16Z")
[MPR: An 'outside' job: External aircraft repairs raise concerns](http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/08/04_horwichj_outsource/) And another who thinks there could be problems. I though I was the only one worried and I rarely fly. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/43 "2007-03-16T05:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [MPR: An 'outside' job: External aircraft repairs raise concerns](http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/08/04_horwichj_outsource/) And another who thinks there could be problems. I though I was the only one worried and I rarely fly. [/QUOTE] So your argument comes down to “Some people agree with me”? Care to respond to some points made in this thread, or do you want to keep drive-by posting links? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/44 "2007-03-16T15:23:12Z")
The thread was ,are dopers concerned about outsourcing and should we be worried about outsourcing this kind of thing. If you are not concerned good for you. If we agree that overall safety has been exemplary for many years. then is there danger in shipping it abroad to less experienced 3rd world locations. If you are comfortable. good for you. Less inspection and lower cost = good. I am concerned . I win. You are not concerned ,you win. The only proof will lie in the future if safety has been compromised. If you believe you have proven what the future holds ,good for you. I am simply waiting. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/45 "2007-03-19T18:52:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] If this were a real problem, don’t you think it would show up in the safety statistics? Here are the safety stats for the last 20 years: [NTSB Accident Data](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Table2.htm) According to the chart, in terms of major accidents per million hours flown, 2005 was the 4th safest in the last 20 years. The year 2005 had the lowest number of injury accidents since 1992, despite a record number of flight hours being logged. In general, airline safety is much better than it was 10 years ago, and much, much better than it was 20 years ago. In 1989, there were 7 times as many serious accidents per million hours flown. So if there’s a problem here, it’s not reflected in the accident statistics. [/QUOTE] Read a MIT statistical analysis of airline safety last Sat. It says that for a 25 year period ending in 1996 American planes were substantially safer than European and Asian counterparts. They explained that they removed Russian airlines from the equation because they were much worse and skewed the statistics. They also had to aggrandize the airline stats because a small airline with one accident would appear much more dangerous than a carrier with many planes. Their conclusions were that our safety stats and foreign were beginning to meet in the middle. While still more safe they had gone from 1 in 8 million flights to 1 in 2 mill. Pure coincidence that the airline repair has been cheapened and safety has dropped huh? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/46 "2007-03-19T23:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Read a MIT statistical analysis of airline safety last Sat. It says that for a 25 year period ending in 1996 American planes were substantially safer than European and Asian counterparts. They explained that they removed Russian airlines from the equation because they were much worse and skewed the statistics. They also had to aggrandize the airline stats because a small airline with one accident would appear much more dangerous than a carrier with many planes. [/QUOTE] Here is a thought (radical I’m sure): Why not link to that analysis and actually post the relevent parts (or what you think are the important parts) so we can all see it and discuss? I know its easier to do your standard drive by links or to just spout off with no link at all…but give it a whirl, ehe? Maybe we could, I don’t know, have a debate…or something… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/47 "2007-03-20T00:41:35Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Read a MIT statistical analysis of airline safety last Sat. It says that for a 25 year period ending in 1996 American planes were substantially safer than European and Asian counterparts. They explained that they removed Russian airlines from the equation because they were much worse and skewed the statistics. They also had to aggrandize the airline stats because a small airline with one accident would appear much more dangerous than a carrier with many planes. Their conclusions were that our safety stats and foreign were beginning to meet in the middle. While still more safe they had gone from 1 in 8 million flights to 1 in 2 mill. Pure coincidence that the airline repair has been cheapened and safety has dropped huh? [/QUOTE] Your example ended in 1996 and it was for airline safety, not maintenance reliability. ---
**Author:** ![Marathon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Marathon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marathon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/48 "2007-03-20T01:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I am concerned . I win. You are not concerned ,you win. [/QUOTE] If that’s how you feel, why didn’t you put this in MPSIMS? Did you really just want to share a totally unfounded, incoherently argued stance, without having arrived at any reasonable conclusion for what amounts to a bad feeling? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/49 "2007-03-20T03:26:10Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Your example ended in 1996 and it was for airline safety, not maintenance reliability. [/QUOTE] Because that is when it went down. . Airline outsourcing and and safety are closely connected. The study indicated until 1996 we were way ahead. Since then much less so. PS I brought the thread up only asking if people were concerned about airline outsourcing expecting that we would discuss if you believe everything is ok to send offshore. I was looking to see if perhaps medical being outsourced would also piss people off. The relative safety thing was brought up so I read up on it. It was not my interest. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/50 "2007-03-20T19:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Airline outsourcing and and safety are closely connected. [/QUOTE] Really? Because the cites here indicate that this is not the case. You talk about some study you read (without a link) and some TV show you saw. You’ve produced no evidence that outsourcing hurts safety. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/51 "2007-03-20T22:55:36Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-09-18-airline-safety-edit\_x.htmhttp://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=investigative&id=3054470http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/08/AR2005060802324.html](http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-09-18-airline-safety-edit_x.htmhttp://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=investigative&id=3054470http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/08/AR2005060802324.html) Yep Renob I am the only one concerned. Heres 3 cites about it. If you need the statistical analysis from MIT and I will look it up for you. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/52 "2007-03-20T22:59:31Z")
[http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6206850](http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6206850) It did not come up right. I must have outsourced my cite. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/53 "2007-03-20T23:01:06Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/2005-03-07-sky-archivemarch04\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/2005-03-07-sky-archivemarch04_x.htm) Many are getting worried. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/54 "2007-03-20T23:06:00Z")
[Link TV](http://www.linktv.com/outsourcing/episode1.php) heres a story on outsourcing. for you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/55 "2007-03-20T23:19:51Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Because that is when it went down. . Airline outsourcing and and safety are closely connected. The study indicated until 1996 we were way ahead. Since then much less so. PS I brought the thread up only asking if people were concerned about airline outsourcing expecting that we would discuss if you believe everything is ok to send offshore. I was looking to see if perhaps medical being outsourced would also piss people off. The relative safety thing was brought up so I read up on it. It was not my interest. [/QUOTE] It’s not that your premise is bad, it’s just not what you think. When a mechanic works on your car he does not rebuild the parts, someone else does. There is an efficiency of labor in the specialized parts that translates into safety. Try rebuilding a aircraft engine vacuum pump sometime and see how much money you save. The first time a carbon bearing shatters on you the $100 savings is gone. It’s better to have someone else do it. I don’t get any warm-fuzzies knowing an American shop does it than I do a Mexican shop. And yes, there are bad shops but they occur everywhere. Each airline is different and so are their maintenance procedures. They have to demonstrate a track record of competence to garner a longer TBO time on their systems. If an airline starts to show sloppy work then they get dinged with shorter overhaul windows. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415/56 "2007-03-22T02:50:36Z")
I do not agree . This is relatively new. The proof does not necessarily show the first week or for the first couple years. Although there have been crashes lately that show errors in maintenance. 911 skewed American safety stats a little. However the airlines were negligent in screening at that time. The M.I.T. study ,I should have saved . However I am fighting the flu and will go through the internets another time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/outsourcing-airplane-maintenance/395415.md?page=2)