Over 1,000 People Killed by U.S. Police so far this Year

[Doctor_Jackson]

On the other side, there is this:

The government does maintain records on how many police officers are killed every year in the line of duty. In 2010, 59 officers were shot to death among 122 killed while on the job. This marked a 20 percent jump from 2009 when 49 officers were killed by gunfire. In 2011, 173 officers died, from all causes, in the line of duty. The fact police officers feel they are increasingly under attack from the public may help explain why they are shooting so many citizens.

Chicken/egg… I don’t know, but worth considering.

Also, from the same site, this:

Where People Were Shot

 Most Deadly States

 California 183 total (102 fatal)
 Florida 96 (49)
 Illinois 64 (26)
 Texas 58 (26)
 New York 49 (23)
 Pennsylvania 49 (23)
 Ohio 45 (28)
 Arizona 45 (27)
Maryland 41 (16)
 Washington 39 (29)

Interestingly enough, 5 of the top 10 states for police shootings are also on the top 10 list of states with the most restrictive gun control laws (noted by underline). Not sure what this means, either.

[BOOM]

I think it means to begin with you need to look at it by population and/or crime rates.

[control-z]

@Doctor_Jackson

On the other side, there is this:

Chicken/egg… I don’t know, but worth considering.

Also, from the same site, this:

Interestingly enough, 5 of the top 10 states for police shootings are also on the top 10 list of states with the most restrictive gun control laws (noted by underline). Not sure what this means, either.

Those states probably had a large criminal/gang population and enacted tougher gun control to try and contain the violence that already existed. Of course the criminals probably don’t care about the gun laws but I suppose the laws could help decrease the number of available guns. It’s trivial to move guns across state lines though.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Ravenman

I get what you are saying, but I have to ask: when is the last time you’ve been in a fight? Because things happen very, very fast, and it is often simply unreasonable to second-guess why someone didn’t think to do something else in a split-second when they are literally under attack.

You mean like it would be unreasonable to second-guess why Tamir Rice didn’t think to just drop to the ground and cover his head in a split-second when he was literally under attack? Hmmmm, you may have a point there.

[Ravenman]

@Snowboarder_Bo

You mean like it would be unreasonable to second-guess why Tamir Rice didn’t think to just drop to the ground and cover his head in a split-second when he was literally under attack?

I am in 1,000% agreement with you.

[BOOM]

I’ll second guess why the kid didn’t drop to the ground - he had no concept that what he was doing would be interpreted by adults as threatening. In fact, in the CCTV, one adult walks right past him, ignoring him. He was playacting, being an attention-seeking nuisance but nonetheless playacting.

[BOOM]

@cochrane

I don’t know what more they could have done before resorting to deadly force. It was only a matter of time before one of the officers was slashed with the blade.

How many stupid decisions do you have to make to get yourself in a position where you have to kill someone during a routine mental health visit in their own home?

Is it really too difficult to say ‘you know what, we’ll come back tomorrow when you’ve calmed down a bit’.

[Shodan]

The police go to do a mental health check up on a person, he attacks them with a machete, and you want them to go away and leave him? What more do you expect the cops to learn about his mental health status than they already know from the fact that he attacked them with a machete?

Regards,
Shodan

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@BOOM

How many stupid decisions do you have to make to get yourself in a position where you have to kill someone during a routine mental health visit in their own home?

Is it really too difficult to say ‘you know what, we’ll come back tomorrow when you’ve calmed down a bit’.

No, leaving him would be a bad idea. But stepping out and talking to him until he calms down, or brining in a social worker to help would be a good idea. Leaving him in that state would not be. I would argue that calming him down by leaving (since entering his house seems to be what set him off), staying close by and then putting him into protective custody would be appropriate.

[BOOM]

Police don’t do mental health checks. You must be aware of that?

[Count_Dracula]

Attacking police officers with a machete? Sounds like a death wish to me.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Count_Dracula

Attacking police officers with a machete? Sounds like a death wish to me.

Or it sounds like someone in a mental health or physical health crisis who either perceives the police officers as something threatening or is having outright delusions.

Not every person acting out is a criminal. Some need help and once help is provided and can return to health. The fact that the police started with non-lethal efforts meant they understood he probably wasn’t being a deliberate threat, but somehow unstable or ill. It’s just tragic that despite their initial efforts, another solution besides shooting him couldn’t have been worked out. If no one in the home was in immediate danger and the if officers could have safely removed themselves and gotten help and advice, there was the possibility of a better outcome.

Fact is police aren’t trained enough to deal with non-criminal elements who may need their help. They need more tools in their tool box for diffusing situations and rendering help. What if it was firefighters or EMTs who had first encountered the man? What would they have done since shooting him wasn’t an option?

[Typo_Negative]

@cochrane

According to the article, the man swung at officers with a machete and struck one with the flat side of the blade. They attempted to subdue him with beanbag rounds before shooting at him. They did try to use less-than-lethal means. I don’t know what more they could have done before resorting to deadly force. It was only a matter of time before one of the officers was slashed with the blade.

According to the article, he allegedly swung and they tried non-lethal means…

I think I liked the world better when I could take what cops say at face value and give them the benefit of every doubt, but I think those days are behind me.

Here is link, about incident last year, from the ‘Controversial Encounters’ thread in the pit.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-beat-taser-shoot-man-23-times-killing-walking-street/

After the shooting, police can be seen pacing around the body and tampering with the crime scene. Later, it was revealed that the police officers there tried to plant multiple knives on his body and claim that he “had a knife.” However, the officers did such a poor job at covering their tracks while planting the weapon that they could not even enter it as evidence in the case.

One of the officers even went so far as to say that he was stabbed, although it was later found that he was not stabbed, and no knife belonging to Jones was actually found or entered as evidence.

The cover-up didnt stop there, when the police finally released the dash-cam footage it was obviously tampered with, large segments of audio and video were missing from the footage, and the time-stamps did not even match up. Even with the edits, the dash-cam footage does provide a number of clues into what actually took place, including one admission from an officer who said “he wasn’t “f**** doing nothing – so we all shot him”**

So we have 6 sworn police officers being racist thug murderers ON CAMERA. We have them covering up and falsifying evidence.

And God only knows why I think it makes it worse that were so fucking incompetent at the cover up!

[Shodan]

@BOOM

Police don’t do mental health checks. You must be aware of that?

Midland Police Department spokeswoman Geena Martinez said the Midland County Sheriff’s Office’s mental health unit arrived at the home for a welfare check when the man, whose name has not been released, began acting aggressively toward the deputies.

Read more: UPDATED: City releases name of deceased man involved in today’s shooting - MRT.com: Top Stories http://www.mrt.com/top_stories/article_50971656-797e-11e4-bb5a-17fa97072faa.html#ixzz3Ks5r0asA
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

Regards,
Shodan

[Shodan]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Not every person acting out is a criminal.

I’m pretty sure that attacking the police with a machete is a crime.

What if it was firefighters or EMTs who had first encountered the man? What would they have done since shooting him wasn’t an option?

Probably called the police, who would have first tried non-lethal means, and then lethal force if that didn’t work.

Regards,
Shodan

[BOOM]

the … mental health unit arrived at the home for a welfare check

The mental heath unit would have been armed?

On a check up call?

[Cartooniverse]

Paramedics responded as Eric Gardner lay suffocating on the sidewalk in Staten Island last year.
They were told NOT to touch him.
He died.
They violated NYS Dept. Of Health laws that they swore to obey.
No indictment today for the chokeholding NYPD officer.
Once again, license to kill.

[AClockworkMelon]

I’m pretty rabidly opposed to a lot of things wrong with the police in the United States, but I believe that as soon as someone is, say, attacking an officer with a machete, that person’s life is forfeit. It’s unfortunate if he had some sort of mental issue, but if that’s the case, it’s what’s really to blame for his death - not the police.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Shodan

I’m pretty sure that attacking the police with a machete is a crime.
Probably called the police, who would have first tried non-lethal means, and then lethal force if that didn’t work.

Regards,
Shodan

Not if there’s no intent. Really, if someone having an epileptic seizure strikes a police officer it’s a crime? Don’t be willfully oblivious. Someone in the throws of delusions is not a criminal.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@AClockworkMelon

I’m pretty rabidly opposed to a lot of things wrong with the police in the United States, but I believe that as soon as someone is, say, attacking an officer with a machete, that person’s life is forfeit. It’s unfortunate if he had some sort of mental issue, but if that’s the case, it’s what’s really to blame for his death - not the police.

I dont think this issue is a matter of blame, but what can be done better. I don’t think these officers are happy they killed the man either. If they had more and better options they’d be happier too.