# \[Over\] 30 Years Ago Today, 14 Engineering Students Were Murdered in Montréal - Because They Were Women **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 7, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499 "2019-12-07T04:08:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/21 "2019-12-13T15:57:32Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > What always strikes me about this terrible tragedy and the responses to it is how toxic masculinity somehow succeeds in devaluing people of both genders. The men who lived are cowards who shouldn’t have. The women are dead. > > Shakin’ my damn head. Is that really a common assertion- that these men were supposed to stay and fight? Because if it is, well, I’d strongly disagree. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/22 "2019-12-13T16:15:16Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Is that really a common assertion- that these men were supposed to stay and fight? Because if it is, well, I’d strongly disagree. It’s an attitude I’ve seen expressed every time I’ve come across a discussion of this event, and each time part of me wants to cry and another wants to just scream with rage. I’m grateful that the term “toxic masculinity” has gained traction of late, because at least I finally have a way of labeling both the sort of extraordinary misogyny that led to the murders, and the all the more pervasive, if less imminently horrific, brand of thought that takes some storybook view of “what a man is” and then holds it up to those survivors as a way to shame them for not dying on the spot, as if they were not themselves a kind of victim who must now live with the memory of that day (and every day that followed as people feel free to spout off about what they, the victims, “should have done”). The expression of disgust for the men not acting “like men”, in addition to I am sure aggravating the trauma experienced by those men in the aftermath, has the perverse effect of entrenching those stereotypical gender roles that the mass murderer in this case sought to reenforce with violence. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/23 "2019-12-13T16:20:48Z")
Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/24 "2019-12-13T16:56:13Z")
I had never heard about this. It is one more reason to be very, very angry about the injustices of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/25 "2020-12-06T17:57:51Z")
A year on, and another anniversary. Story about plans for remembrances in a virtual world: > **[Ceremonies to mark 31st anniversary of Polytechnique killings go virtual |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ceremonies-to-mark-31st-anniversary-of-polytechnique-killings-go-virtual-1.5830266)** > > Most of the traditional events, including wreath-laying, speeches and a ceremony to project beams of light into the sky from the Mount Royal lookout, will proceed either virtually or without crowds in what one survivor of the shooting says is sure to... And an interesting excerpt from a book, analysing the initial press reports, and the fact that the initial coverage did not mention that all the dead were women: > **[Right after the Montreal Massacre, many wouldn’t acknowledge that all the...](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/12/06/right-after-the-montreal-massacre-many-wouldnt-acknowledge-that-all-the-victims-were-women-it-was-more-than-just-disbelief.html)** > > It soon became impossible to ignore that this was an attack against women. But few could agree on what that meant. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/26 "2020-12-06T23:41:53Z")
I do remember this horrible, shocking event. At the time, I thought people had made peace with women getting an education, taking their places in the working world, etc. Now of course, I know we are still fighting for our equality even to maintain the progress we have made, much less further it. Proud to fight for my sisters. Sorry that we still have to fight this fight. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/27 "2020-12-07T01:59:45Z")
Like I said earlier in this thread, they were ordered out at gunpoint, and I’m sure all of them have had to deal with the guilt of what they could/should/might have done ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/28 "2020-12-07T13:28:36Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > What always struck me about this terrible tragedy is that there were 50 men in that classroom. Every single one of them left. In the aftermath of the massacre, the men who left the room were criticized by some for not being manly enough. It’s horribly sexist to criticize unarmed men for refusing to rush a gunman, while also giving a pass to the unarmed women in the same room who refused to rush that same gunman. Either nobody should be faulted for failing to intervene, or everyone should be faulted. > **[École Polytechnique massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre#Failure_to_intervene)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}45°30′17″N 73°36′46″W / 45.50472°N 73.61278°W / 45.50472; -73.61278 > The École Polytechnique massacre (French: tuerie de l'École polytechnique), also known as the Montreal massacre, was an antifeminist... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/29 "2022-12-07T03:59:24Z")
Je me souviens. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/30 "2022-12-07T05:45:45Z")
Thanks for this. May these women never be forgotten. May the scourge of senseless violence be relegated to the past. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/31 "2022-12-07T23:54:25Z")
The McGill University newspaper has published short bios of the fourteen. Young, promising women, with their lives ahead of them. Until a man with a gun took it all away. > [@](#): > > - **Geneviève Bergeron:** “She was a civil engineering student who had just turned 21. She played the clarinet, she sang in the Montreal Symphony Orchestra, and she had even babysat Montreal mayor Jean Doré’s youngest child.” > > - **Hélène Colgan:** “She was at the end of her degree in mechanical engineering. She was 23 years old when she died. She was a strong student who was looking forward to what came after her degree. In fact, she had three job offers lined up.” > > - **Nathalie Croteau:** “She was friends with Hélène Colgan, both of whom were planning to vacation someplace warm after their exams. She was three months from graduating and she was only 23 years old.” > > - **Barbara Daigneault:** “Her father was a mechanical engineering professor and she worked alongside him as a teaching assistant during her degree. She would share her notes with other students, always trying to help. She liked chocolate cake with whipped cream. She was 22 years old.” > > - **Anne-Marie Edward:** “She was 21 years old. She was studying chemical engineering. She loved rock climbing, downhill skiing and whitewater rafting.” > > - **Maud Haviernick:** “She was studying materials engineering and she already had a bachelor’s degree in environmental design. She made community living habitats. It was her dream to pursue a career in engineering and design. She made sculptures as a hobby. She was 29 years old.” > > - **Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz:** “She was studying engineering, logistics and economics. She loved to read. She spoke five languages. She was studying nursing and was 31.” > > - **Maryse Laganière** : “She was a budget clerk for the department of finance. She had 13 older siblings. She tried to stop the gunman from entering the building. She was 25 years old.” > > - **Maryse Leclair** : “She was the oldest of four sisters. She was studying in her fourth year of mechanical engineering. She was in love with a classmate named Benoit. She loved listening to music.” > > - **Anne-Marie Lemay:** “She was a mechanical engineering student inspired to study mechanical devices because her friend had lost a leg and she was fascinated by the importance of mechanical devices in his rehabilitation. She was 22 years old. She played in a band.” > > - **Sonia Pelletier:** “She loved rock music. Her favourite song was ‘Still Alive.’ She was days away from graduating at 28 years old in mechanical engineering.” > > - **Michèle Richard:** “Her nickname was Mimi. She was a second-year materials engineering student. She was 21 years old. She wanted to buy a place and live in Lac-Mégantic where she was from.” > > - **Annie St-Arneault:** “She was an only daughter. She was attending her last mechanical engineering class before graduating. She wrote poetry. She liked to work with her hands and she was passionate about the environment. She was 23 years old.” > > - **Annie Turcotte:** “She had won a Women in Science bursary while attending Polytechnique. She was studying metallurgical engineering. She was a protector of nature and the environment. She taught swimming lessons for free at a summer camp for children with disabilities. She was 20 years old.” ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/32 "2022-12-08T22:55:47Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > May the scourge of senseless violence be relegated to the past. It wasn’t exactly senseless to the killer, but may the scourge of sexist violence be relegated to the past as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/33 "2022-12-08T23:03:36Z")
As an engineering student who lived in Montreal, my sympathy is with the victims and not the perpetrator. Any senseless violence is stupid by definition. Of course this extends to violence based on gender, sex, race or many other things. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/34 "2022-12-08T23:18:40Z")
Wow. I’d never heard of this incident before. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, and – far more meaningfully – for keeping the memories of the fallen and the significance of the tragedy alive. It gave me goosebumps. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/35 "2022-12-08T23:20:15Z")
Thank you @Northern_Piper for keeping this story alive and these women in our memories. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/36 "2022-12-08T23:38:19Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > As an engineering student who lived in Montreal, my sympathy is with the victims and not the perpetrator. Any senseless violence is stupid by definition. My sympathy is firmly with the victims and their families but I am learning that much of what we call senseless, we should perhaps call insane, because so much of it seems to stem from the violent person thinking they are taking revenge for a wrong they perceive, whether it truly exists or not. I think violence is always a terrible answer to life’s problems (real or perceived) and I don’t understand why people choose it. I have no sympathy for the killer. But I would like to understand how/why he chose his action, to help prevent more of the same from others. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/37 "2022-12-09T00:16:41Z")
> [@slalexan](#): > > I am 30 years old and an engineer. These women helped pave the way for women like me. And we still have a long way to go. There is indeed still much to be done, but at least it’s not 1956. “Betty, Girl Engineer” is an iconic episode from _Father Knows Best_ which aired in that year. The often-moralizing series this time focused on the silliness of Betty interning as a civil engineer, being ridiculed by other engineers and family alike, and in the happy ending finally learning her proper role in the world: to look pretty, date men, and prepare herself to be a housewife and mother. It would normally just be amusing for its archaic absurdity, but in the context of events like this it’s downright infuriating. The series also reflects the times with other unintentional ventures into misogyny and racism. It’s a useful reminder to those who think of the 50s in terms of warm nostalgia. There’s also a movie that deals with that theme, **[_Far From Heaven_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297884/?ref_=ttls_li_tt)**. For those who may not know, “SWE” stands for Society of Women Engineers. > **[Father Knows Best takes on women in engineering](https://spacefem.livejournal.com/580068.html)** > > I finally checked out a part of women engineering folklore that'd been on my list a while... the famous "Betty, Girl Engineer" episode from Father Knows Best! It's a favorite subject among the SWE crowd because it's just so damn ridiculous. Obviously... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/38 "2023-12-07T03:18:52Z")
> **[Beams of light for the 34th anniversary of the Polytechnique massacre |...](https://montreal.citynews.ca/2023/12/06/34th-anniversary-polytechnique-massacre/)** > > Fourteen beams of light lit up Montreal’s sky from Mount Royal on Wednesday night, in memory of the 14 women murdered 34 years ago. > [@](#): > > The act led parliament to designate December 6 as the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women. The beams were lit one at a time on the lookout, as the names of the 14 victims were read. > > The lights pierced through the fog from 5:10 p.m., marking the time the first shots were fired the day of the attack, and continued to light the sky over the city until 10 p.m. > **[Vigil honouring Montreal Massacre victims calls on men to take action against...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-montreal-massacre-1.7049827)** > > This year's annual vigil in London, Ont., commemorating 34 years since the Montreal Massacre, will call on boys and men to take action to prevent gender-based violence and femicide.  > **[Opinion: Work still needed on industry sexism 34 years after Montreal Massacre](https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-work-still-needed-on-industry-sexism-34-years-after-montreal-massacre)** > > Thirty-four years after Montreal massacre, we still have work to do when it comes to sexism in industry. Je me souviens. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/39 "2023-12-07T16:35:51Z")
Thank you for helping us to remember these actions and these women. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499/40 "2024-12-06T16:53:53Z")
Je me souviens. Lots of news articles from across Canada on the 35th anniversary today. I won’t try to link them all but if you’re interested just check “Montreal Polytechnic Massacre” on Google news. This one story jumped out at me, with a new-to-me bit of info that I’d never seen before: some of the details of the killer’s suicide note. It makes it very clear that his target was successful women, not just women in engineering studies, and that he had a hit list of successful women that he had hoped to kill, but decided he “wouldn’t have time” after the killings at the Polytechnic. One prominent woman journalist in Montreal, Francine Pelletier, heard through the grapevine that her name was in the list, but the police refused to release it, citing the possibility of copycat killings. After a year of unsuccessful efforts, she got a photocopy of the suicide note: anonymously, in a brown envelope. She never found out who sent it. She went on to be co-host of the Fifth Estate, a major CBC news program, and did a documentary on the Massacre on the 10th anniversary in 1999. > **[Journalist who was on Polytechnique murderer's kill list describes moment she...](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7401282)** > > Two days after the École Polytechnique massacre, journalist Francine Pelletier learned she and 18 other women were on the gunman's hit list because it was published in the newspaper she worked for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/over-30-years-ago-today-14-engineering-students-were-murdered-in-montreal-because-they-were-women/844499.md?page=3)