# Overall, has Rap music had a positive influence on society? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029 "2005-05-16T04:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/41 "2005-05-18T00:07:50Z")
I’m not qualified to say what effect it’s had on society; I can only speak from personal observation of myself - a middle aged white guy - and my family. For the most part it’s been pretty good. Some of the songs on Eminem’s album, _The Eminem Show_, are among my alltime favorites. I wish I could find more stuff like that. It’s one of the areas where my kids and I can enjoy the same things. We have fun listening together in the car, reciting the lyrics together, talking about the song. A few weeks ago my 11 year old was blindsided by a pretty cruel rejection by his “girlfriend.” He was **very** upset by it. So I played the song _Superman_, from the above album, for him, and within five minutes we were laughing together and he was in a great mood. It’s nice to have an alternative point of view to that over the top romantic drivel that the Beatles brainwashed my generation with. “I do know one thing though Bitches, they come, they go.” Where was Eminem when I was a teenager to give me some balanced perspective? On the down side, there is an awful lot of really dumb, bad rap out there. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/42 "2005-05-19T14:37:54Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Overall, has Rap music had a positive influence on society? Taking into consideration the economic and sociological impact, and how it has influences other aspects of society, has Rap been a good thing? Has it been good for some, and not others? If so, in what ways? > > Basically I would like to know your answer to the question, your opinion of Rap music in general, and what it’s based on. I have my own feelings about rap music but I would like to hear what other people think before I comment. I think it has had an incredibly negative influence on society. Rap is oriented heavily towards violence, drug abuse, gangs and total anti-social behaviour. When young, impressionable kids listen to a steady diet of this stuff, is there any wonder why they wind up in trouble, strung out on drugs, in jail or worse? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/43 "2005-05-19T15:49:08Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I think it has had an incredibly negative influence on society. **Rap is oriented heavily towards violence, drug abuse, gangs and total anti-social behaviour.** When young, impressionable kids listen to a steady diet of this stuff, is there any wonder why they wind up in trouble, strung out on drugs, in jail or worse? > [@](#): > > A couple of sounds that I really like > Are the sounds of a switchblade and a motorbike > [@](#): > > You got me blowin’, blowin’ my mind > [@](#): > > I’m goin’ down to shoot my old lady now > You know I caught her messin’ 'round with another man > [@](#): > > When in walked a man > With a gun in his hand > And he was looking for you know who. > [@](#): > > One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small > And the ones that mother gives you, don’t do anything at all I didn’t wind up in trouble, strung out on drugs, in jail, nor worse. Nor did my friends, nor their friends, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/44 "2005-05-20T08:57:57Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I think it has had an incredibly negative influence on society. Rap is oriented heavily towards violence, drug abuse, gangs and total anti-social behaviour. When young, impressionable kids listen to a steady diet of this stuff, is there any wonder why they wind up in trouble, strung out on drugs, in jail or worse? Yes, it’s a wonder. Wanna know why? It’s because most of the kids listening to it are white, upper-middle class suburban kids who never get into big trouble. Look deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Kenneth_Noisewater)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/45 "2005-05-20T09:27:23Z")
I don’t know if it’s had any more of a negative effect that anything else in pop music. It’s certainly had a negative effect on my parking lot and car stereos that I’m pretty sure New Wave never did. I can’t really stand objectively about it, and neither can fans. You’ll say there are better things than gangsta rap but in the same sentence you cite Eminem who is the most vehemently angry and hate-filled person I’ve seen in popular music. That’s a terrible influence. To say that his is ‘just music’ is ridiculous. It’s pre-packaged hate, it’s meant to appeal to somebody, and it’s ludicrous. I don’t like it, but I don’t think it’s streamlined violence. More like stupidity, ignorance, and obscenity. The record scratch has been used in place of the bleep for censoring foul language so often that it’s transcended into other genres. I’m no saint, I say fuck and shit and ass but I’ve never written a song called “Cum On Everybody.” It’s decadent but it’s popular, and it’s come a long way from Run DMC and MC Hammer. Not to mention the popularity of sampling, which only piles onto the fact that the people who make it lack the talent or knowhow to make their own original repetitive cliched bassline. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/46 "2005-05-20T09:31:48Z")
The difference with white and black audiences and how they respond to gangsta rap is simple: middle class white kids tend to listen to rap and imitate attitude, fashions and mores. Lots and lots and lots of poor and working class black kids listen to rap and emulate attitudes, fashions and mores. One group is pretending, one group is fending. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Kenneth_Noisewater)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/47 "2005-05-21T06:11:48Z")
I fail to see the difference. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/48 "2005-05-21T18:23:52Z")
> [@Dr. Kenneth Noisewater](#): > > I fail to see the difference. That doesn’t make it any less real. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/49 "2005-05-21T20:14:33Z")
The difference is a matter of degree. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/50 "2005-05-21T21:07:34Z")
I’m not positive I understand what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/51 "2005-05-21T23:05:30Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > This is coming from a die-hard hip-hop fan: a lot of rap is characteristically and flagrantly obnoxious, aggressive, misogynistic, violent, obscene, narcisstic, overly materialistic and often self-hating. It’s become much more extreme since the late 1980s and made this kind of behavior the norm – not just in the performers but in the fans. > > * * * > > Back when legitimate gangbangers went from actually being in drive-bys and dealing drugs to just singing about drive-bys and dealing drugs, I thought rap was a good, cathartic thing. As a genre rap can be innovative, even evocative – but you have to know I mean the Old School. But when gangsta rap and bling-bling became the mainstream, the commercial pap since the early 1990s that has slowly morphed into something I don’t listen to much anymore. I agree 100%. The first question I have for the OP is “Which rap?” As **Askia** points out, there was a sea change in the early 1990s in the world of hip-hop. It seemed to go from Guy (totally innocent/positive) to C + C Music Factory (rather innocent/positive), to Bel-Biv-Devoe (getting much darker quickly) to outright horrific gangsta rap in the matter of a year or so. Of course, the good has continued with the bad, but the bad has ruled for a long time now. And by “bad” I mean not talking naughty, protesting against the bad but actually supporting, celebrating the bad. Rap used to have a positive influence–how could it not, if its message was positive? But now, overall, it must certainly have a negative influence–how could it not if it supports negativity? As to the size of that negative influence, it’s anybody’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/52 "2005-05-21T23:29:06Z")
**Dr. Kenneth Noisewater, Marley23.** Emulation is to imitation what flagrant is to blatant. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@Dr.Kenneth\_Noisewater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Kenneth_Noisewater)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/53 "2005-05-22T06:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Lisa: Okay, I’d like 25 copies in canary, 25 in goldenrod, 25 in > saffron, and 25 in paella. > Clerk: OK, 100 yellow. Basically I’m getting from you some kind of awkward justification that it’s ok for black people to love rap music but not whites. The only real difference between emulate and imitate is that the latter is less positive. What I’m trying to communicate is that it’s all imitation, whether you’re a rag-wearing project denizen or a sweater-vested Princeton student. The fact that only one’s imitation is absurd to the general public is a matter of perspective. From mine, they both appear ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/54 "2005-05-22T07:05:40Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **Dr. Kenneth Noisewater, Marley23.** Emulation is to imitation what flagrant is to blatant. I felt I vaguely grasped pretending vs. fending and wanted you to make it clearer. You’re not doing that. Would you please spell this out instead of beating around the bush? I understand you’re talking about slight distinctions and using shades of meaning, but by failing to make yourself clear you’re not furthering my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/55 "2005-05-22T14:26:52Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I agree 100%. The first question I have for the OP is “Which rap?” As **Askia** points out, there was a sea change in the early 1990s in the world of hip-hop. It seemed to go from Guy (totally innocent/positive) to C + C Music Factory (rather innocent/positive), to Bel-Biv-Devoe (getting much darker quickly) to outright horrific gangsta rap in the matter of a year or so. Gangster rap was around in the early to mid 1990s, but it was more underground. I remember groups like Arrested Development and Digable Planets were more mainstream. Wonder whatever happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/56 "2005-05-22T14:41:40Z")
Some rap I like but most of it I despise. This is what makes it a failure for me. it has a higher crap percentage than other music genres. In terms of its influence I can’t recall EVER hearing anyone quote a rap lyric in everday conversation. It’s just modern day pop. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/57 "2005-05-22T23:33:07Z")
**Marley23.** What, I can’t just be glib? Yeesh. “Fending” - making do under adverse circumstances. It’s easier to pretend to be a badass when you’re a white male well-fed middle-class suburbanite and can afford the bling. But there’s usually an earnestness missing because you simply don’t want it as much as someone who sees hip-hop ghetto-fabulousless as something to genuinely aspire to and their only shot out of poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Conan\_the\_Librarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Conan\_the\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conan_the_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/58 "2005-05-23T12:11:36Z")
After reading everyone’s posts, I thought of one thing. Outkast is rap?? No, they are… they are… hmm… well what do ya know. I’m guessing that the majority of people here who dislike rap haven’t listened to enough different types to make a huge judgement. I think that “gangsta rap” gets the most attention, so as a result people dislike it because of that idea. Much like a lot of people dislike country even though they don’t realize that the genre covers a lot of different areas. I think that rap has given positive influences, and the more that the gansta rap is unsupported, the more postive of an influence the genre will have. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029/59 "2005-05-23T16:22:40Z")
Gangsta rap currently dominates hip-hop roughly the way superheroes dominate comic books. Just because its the prevalent thing doesn’t make it the best thing, the only thing or the most characteristic example of the thing. People have short memories man, 1995 wasn’t THAT long ago. Gangsta rap was better when it was a west coast underground and autobiographical war stories of folks like Gheto Boyz, NWA, Tupac and Ice-T. Personally, I blame Sean Combs, Biggie, Suge Knight and Jay-Z for a lot of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-has-rap-music-had-a-positive-influence-on-society/304029.md?page=2)