# Overall, is Covid strengthening or weakening the anti-vaxxer movement? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [July 20, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846 "2020-07-20T16:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![steepone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@steepone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steepone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/21 "2020-07-21T04:45:47Z")
While I don’t think the anti-vax movement will be weakened noticeably, I do think people will fight the anti-vaxxers more actively, I think we’ll see a lot more acceptance of unvaccinated people being banned from places and events and a lot less acceptance of religious and conscientious exemptions ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/22 "2020-07-21T08:23:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > On the one hand, you’ve never had so many people who desperately want a disease to be beaten, so you should see a mile-long line of people waiting to get Covid vaccines when they come out. (Bold added.) I take it you’re not old enough to remember the big public polio vax programs in the mid-1950’s. I am. People lining up for their shots: [https://vaccineinformation.org/photos/policdc006.jpg](https://vaccineinformation.org/photos/policdc006.jpg) When we get a covid-19 vaccine, 1. Will their be massive nationwide publicly funded vaccination campaigns like that? 2. Will people line up for blocks on end like that to get their shots? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/23 "2020-07-21T12:07:29Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > When we get a covid-19 vaccine, > > 1. Will their be massive nationwide publicly funded vaccination campaigns like that? > 2. Will people line up for blocks on end like that to get their shots? Well, technically it would be a longer line due to social distancing. 😷 ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/24 "2020-07-21T12:33:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To be clear I do not think that there is any reason to be hopeful that a sudden surge of seasonal HCoVs will lead to mitigation of COVID-19 but @nelliebly on what are you basing this assertion with such confidence? > > Actually [they do, quite a bit](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6493/860). Like I said, it’s just a wild hope but I knew it was based on reality. Thanks for the cite! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/25 "2020-07-21T13:02:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My fear and unfortunate expectation is that the worst of COVID-19 will be during this Fall and Winter, overlapping with influenza season. I am very afraid that many regions that think they have beat it will see major outbreaks then. I will be very surprised if a vaccine is released for wide distribution before next Spring, if then, if ever, and am sure that bad things will happen within a week or two of some receiving the vaccines, which many will know someone who says their cousin had it happen. Maybe even something not only coincidental. I completely agree with this. I think you’re right: the worst is yet to come, and whereas this was once a possibility, the sheer numbers now in July, as well as the continued recalcitrance of many citizens and policymakers, are making a disastrous fall wave outcome increasingly inevitable - and yeah, it’s going to be timed perfectly with the outbreak of influenza. There’s a difference between having fully completed successful vaccine testing and bringing a vaccine to the market for widespread use. It’s great that we’ve apparently found a way to accelerate testing, but manufacturing enough vaccines for all who need them is a process that could take a year, if not longer. In that time, we’re probably just as likely to develop better, more rapid tests and successful treatment regimens that greatly reduce the severity of the disease except for those who are perhaps really vulnerable with underlying conditions. I could envision a scenario similar to that of HIV/AIDS in which we learn how to manage the disease without vaccinations. I don’t see how anti-vaxxers would be compelled to change their views at all, and with social media, truth and facts really don’t seem to matter anymore. People can create their own reality, which seems to be part of the fun of living in conspiracy land. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/26 "2020-07-21T13:27:20Z")
The thing that scares me is that China is really pushing development and production without even doing all of the trials in a hope that they will be the first one to get a major vaccine out and in circulation…and that this is going to be produced in the hundreds of millions, if not billions. MAYBE it will be ok, but I have my doubts based on past performance of Chinese pharmaceutical companies and vaccines. I’m not really worried about a western/US based company pushing out a vaccine by Trump et al for the election so much as whatever the Chinese are doing or will do, which scares the crap out of me. YMMV of course. As for the OP, I see the potential for a lot more converts to the stupid and the dark side with what’s going on. Anti-vaxxers might have some real things to point at if the Chinese vaccine is bad and causes a lot of harm. Even western vaccines might miss some things in their haste to push things to get someone out in quantity as soon as possible, and there might be more side effects or deaths than is normal for a vaccine that is more rigorously tested, and this will certainly play into the anti-vax hysteria and ignorance, even when it’s pointed out that it STILL will be saving lives. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/27 "2020-07-21T15:26:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I will be very surprised if a vaccine is released for wide distribution before next Spring, if then, if ever, and am sure that bad things will happen within a week or two of some receiving the vaccines, which many will know someone who says their cousin had it happen. Maybe even something not only coincidental. > [@DSeid](#): > > Any COVID-19 vaccine will be approved on an expedited schedule. There is some reasonable chance that there will be problems that only on post marketing surveillance when you go from a trial of maybe 30K to millions of doses administered in short order. It is just exaggerated standard operating procedure but the perception of its being rushed will make any issues that show up after approval, even issues that turn out to be coincidental, major fodder for antivax social media. Especially as the disease passes its peak. We have seen in general that social media greatly amplifies controversy. In my biz the instant hue and cry becomes first deafening and then destructive to the deliberate, thorough, and safe pace of regulation & progress. To be sure this exigent crisis means some corners must be cut. The thought leaders need to get the public at large to accept that corner cutting in advance, and also to understand and accept the actual reality of adverse effects of all medications that are mass-administered. Absent that public education and buy-in, we’ll simply have mass hysteria that the vaccine isn’t perfect. That’s before of course the usual dark forces start spreading raw disinformation thick and fast. Bottom line: This will be the first significant new vaccine released in the social media era. It may well be the last vaccine released ever if the noise to signal ratio gets too far out of whack. I’m not optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/28 "2020-07-21T17:00:00Z")
Of course, that all kind of ignores that any vaccine might _actually_ be more dangerous than the disease for the majority of people. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/29 "2020-07-21T18:11:00Z")
I would say that even the potential Chinese vaccine being pushed is unlikely to be more dangerous than the disease. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/30 "2020-07-21T18:48:53Z")
That’s nice that you think that. The vaccine will have to he pretty friggin safe to justify giving it to children. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/31 "2020-07-21T18:54:08Z")
Any American/European developed vaccine is highly unlikely to be more dangerous to children (or anybody) than community acquired disease. No, I don’t offer cites to that because I don’t want to see your anti-vaxxers sites. I have spent a career fighting to protect children from preventable disease, death and disability. My children got every vaccine recommended, I get myself every vaccine recommended, flu, shingles, pneumonia. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/32 "2020-07-21T18:58:54Z")
Exactly. I, also, dont’ want to see a bunch of anti-vax drivel at this point. I can’t think of a vaccine developed in either the US or Europe that has ever been more dangerous to the people getting it than the actual disease. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/33 "2020-07-21T19:56:12Z")
I am not an anti-vaxxer. I just have a clue. This disease is incredibly not dangerous to children so even a 1/100,000 chance of nerve damage or something would be sketchy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/34 "2020-07-21T20:19:37Z")
Not incredibly dangerous does not mean less than 1 in 100,000 have complications. The fact that there are any kids who have died or have suffered more than the sniffles, with “only” 4 million infected tells me that the chances of complications is much higher. And how far down do you want to go, in an effort to “protect the children”? It’s probably not that far off from 1 in 100,000 to get into a car accident on their way to their medical care provider. Does that mean that getting the vaccine is sketchy? Finally, the vaccine is not for the children. It is for all those who they come into contact with throughout the course of their day. Vaccines are almost never meant to primarily benefit the person who gets them, they are for the health of the community. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/35 "2020-07-21T20:55:05Z")
I agree. Any reasonable test would detect if the vaccine were more dangerous than the disease. But since anti-vaxxers aren’t rational, even relatively small issues would get magnified. I could see them saying the vaccine hurts us while the virus only kills old people. Or is a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/36 "2020-07-21T21:04:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think you’re right: the worst is yet to come, [. . .] and yeah, it’s going to be timed perfectly with the outbreak of influenza. Not to mention, also timed perfectly with the outbreak of election. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/37 "2020-07-21T21:05:37Z")
> [@RealityCheck71](#): > > I am not an anti-vaxxer. I just have a clue Yes, you _are_ an anti-vaxxer. _Get_ a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/38 "2020-07-21T21:11:53Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I would say that even the potential Chinese vaccine being pushed is unlikely to be more dangerous than the disease. TBH, I still worry about any food or drug product coming from China, after the melamine scandals of a few years ago. (Toxic toothpaste and dog food.) Just like @BippityBoppityBoo, I keep up with my vaxes (don’t forget TDAP, BBB!) But if China beats us to a Covid vax and we import it from them, I think I’d just keep social distancing and wearing the Mask for a while longer. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/39 "2020-07-21T21:13:57Z")
I believe in children getting their regular shots and don’t think they cause autism. What in the hell do you think an anti-vaxxer is? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846/40 "2020-07-21T21:17:55Z")
People who spuriously spread off-putting alarm about vaccines. You did that. That you may not do that about all vaccines doesn’t preclude that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-is-covid-strengthening-or-weakening-the-anti-vaxxer-movement/915846.md?page=3)