# Overall term to refer to people from the British Isles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607 "2020-01-18T06:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![scoots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@scoots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scoots)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/61 "2020-01-21T19:17:30Z")
I’ve never understood why Ireland gets a sea but England only gets a channel. Seems a bit unfair. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/62 "2020-01-22T00:47:04Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > This is a bit of a nitpick. To many people ‘_Ireland_’ refers to the whole island of Ireland. Perhaps ROI (Republic of Ireland) is the more correct descriptor of the republic, but \*‘Eire’ \*is clear and unambiguous. > > Dublin is indeed described as the capital of Ireland, but that says more about political ambition than geopolitical accuracy. And, of course, when the whole island was British, Dublin was the capital city. If you’re going to argue that “Ireland” is an inappropriate descriptor for the state of that name on the grounds that it doesn’t embrace the whole island, then you can hardly with consistency suggest that the whole island was ever “British”; it has always been distinct from Great Britain. This isn’t that difficult. The name of the state, in English, is “Ireland”. The description of the state, which can be used if you need to disambiguate, is “the Republic of Ireland”. It’s a mistake to try to use non-English words to disambiguate; either your audience won’t understand them or, worse, you won’t. The Irish word “eire” means a load or burden. “Éire” (the accent matters) is the Irish name of the whole island and also the name of the state in Irish; it has the same range of meanings as “Ireland”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/63 "2020-01-22T00:58:54Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > This isn’t that difficult. The name of the state, in English, is “Ireland”. The description of the state, which can be used if you need to disambiguate, is "the Republic of Ireland.” Actually, this bit isn’t simple to me. The whole “description of the state” business is gibberish to me. It’s capitalized; this, it’s the proper name of something, not a description. And anyway what does it mean to designate an official description? That’s meaningless. Every other country has an official or formal name in the form of “Republic of” or “Kingdom of” or whatever. That’s not a description. That’s a name. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/64 "2020-01-22T03:31:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Airstrip Oneans. > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > If I recall correctly, Airstrip One was just England. I think. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/65 "2020-01-22T03:51:41Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/66 "2020-01-22T04:14:17Z")
> [@scoots](#): > > I’ve never understood why Ireland gets a sea but England only gets a channel. Seems a bit unfair. The French don’t even want the English to have that. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Airstrip Oneans. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 > **[Nineteen Eighty-Four](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four)** > > Nineteen Eighty-Four (also published as 1984) is a dystopian novel and cautionary tale by English writer George Orwell. It was published on 8 June 1949 by Secker & Warburg as Orwell's ninth and final book completed in his lifetime. Thematically, it centres on the consequences of totalitarianism, mass surveillance, and repressive regimentation of people and behaviours within society. Orwell, a democratic socialist, modelled the authoritarian state in the novel on the Soviet Union in the era Th... ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/67 "2020-01-22T06:38:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The French don’t even want the English to have that. Indeed. For them, it’s just a piece of clothing (and while they’re at it, their name for the Channel Islands is, at best, a grudging sharing with us) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/68 "2020-01-22T09:04:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Every other country has an official or formal name in the form of “Republic of” or “Kingdom of” or whatever. That’s not a description. That’s a name. According to the Wikipedia article I linked on the name of the state, some countries don’t, for example Hungary and Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/69 "2020-01-22T09:55:20Z")
Why would you need such a term? There is no concept of people from France and Belgium but not Italy, or Germans and Austrian but no Poles. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/70 "2020-01-22T13:59:34Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The only thing I can think of is “British and Irish”. “British Islanders” is not a term I’ve heard used and could be confusing as between people who live on any of the islands around us, and those who live on the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, which are locally self-governing and therefore there may (depending on context) be a legal distinction. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/71 "2020-01-22T14:14:12Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > According to the Wikipedia article I linked on the name of the state, some countries don’t, for example Hungary and Ukraine. And Canada and Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/72 "2020-01-22T14:28:25Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Why would you need such a term? There is no concept of people from France and Belgium but not Italy, or Germans and Austrian but no Poles. You don’t but it would be helpful to have a commonly understood and politically neutral term for the island group itself. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/73 "2020-01-22T14:48:23Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > You don’t but it would be helpful to have a commonly understood and politically neutral term for the island group itself. I guess it might, but those of us who inhabit these sceptred isles (Sceptered Isles?), whichever part we come from (Well, apart from some Scot Nats) will happily support GB at the Olympics and our home team in The Six Nations. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/74 "2020-01-22T15:13:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > (snip) > > There is no specific demonym for a person who lives on an isle as opposed to an island. (Although searching for one led to the discovery that a person from the Isle of Wight is inexplicably called a Vectian and a person from the Isle of Jura is a Diurach.) So I’m stumped. _Diùra_ is the Gaelic name of the Isle of Jura, thus the demonym. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/75 "2020-01-22T17:07:07Z")
Vectis was the Roman name for the Isle of Wight ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/76 "2020-01-22T17:31:40Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I guess it might, but those of us who inhabit these sceptred isles (Sceptered Isles?), whichever part we come from (Well, apart from some Scot Nats) will happily support GB at the Olympics and our home team in The Six Nations. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, but it’s hard to escape the conclusion that you are unaware that Ireland sends its own team to the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/77 "2020-01-22T19:27:11Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > According to the Wikipedia article I linked on the name of the state, some countries don’t, for example Hungary and Ukraine. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And Canada and Japan. Yes, I phrased it badly. Except a small number of nation-states that have just a single geographic designation as its name, most nation-states have a short name and a long/formal/official name that includes some type of indication of the form of statehood, such as “Republic of” or “Kingdom of,” but in those cases, those are two _names_. I fundamentally don’t understand what Ireland means by calling “Republic of Ireland” a _description_. When I read or hear that, I get the feeling that I’m suddenly unable to understand the English language, because I have no idea what that’s talking about. I can’t conceive of how “Republic of Ireland” isn’t a name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/78 "2020-01-22T19:31:29Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 In George Orwell’s _1984_, the main character, Winston Smith, lived in London, which was part of a geographical entity called Airstrip One, which was a subdivision of the nation of Oceania, whose global rivals were Eurasia and Eastasia. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/79 "2020-01-22T19:55:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I fundamentally don’t understand what Ireland means by calling “Republic of Ireland” a _description_. When I read or hear that, I get the feeling that I’m suddenly unable to understand the English language, because I have no idea what that’s talking about. I can’t conceive of how “Republic of Ireland” isn’t a name. My guess is that it means that official government documents, passports, treaties etc, just use “Ireland” and never use the phrase “Republic of Ireland”. As for the terminology, “name” versus “description”, my guess is that there is official acknowledgement of the fact that people will use “Republic of Ireland” to avoid ambiguity, but a desire to assert that, for various historic reasons, it’s not what the state should be officially referred to. They need two different terms and have settled on “name” and “description”, they could probably have chosen another two like “title” and “clarifier” without changing much else. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607/80 "2020-01-22T20:42:28Z")
How about the Pasty People. For the pastry/sandwich-like dish. Not for skin color, of course. Or Pastians, the Pastese, … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overall-term-to-refer-to-people-from-the-british-isles/846607.md?page=5)