# Overcoming Solipsism **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778 "2020-04-29T01:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/41 "2020-05-07T04:11:48Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > …It’s only myself that feels real and it’s hard to be “there” when around other people because I doubt whether they really exist or not. > > I’m not keen on the idea that the way out is to “believe”, since to me that sounds like a fairy tale. Like believing that other people exist and are real i sounds like I “lost the fight to it”. Sometimes I am overcome with terrible fear about the prospect of being alone in the universe and never having any meaningful relationships with another person… As you are simply a figment of my imagination given a slightly greater sense/illusion of “feeling real,” I’m very sorry I have created you this way and that you are experiencing such angst. If it’s any consolation, other Machinaforces in other worlds I have created do not feel this way. Here’s the thing: I can create worlds which don’t really exist in any absolute sense, and I can fill them with people and things which don’t really exist – all of it being figments of my mind – but I cannot uncreate anything once it has been created. And if I lose conscious contact with a (faux-)sentient figment for a prolonged interval of time, there is a risk it will start thinking independently along the same existential lines you are doing (this causes a little red light to go on in my command center). Given the large numbers of my figments that have reached this point, you can well understand why I felt compelled to create religion, i.e., to keep them preoccupied with metaphysical constructs, rather than thinking about themselves and coming to the same inevitable conclusion you are coming to that they do not really exist. I will have to admit, religion has not worked out as well as I would have liked. Some of my figments actually use it as a rallying call to attack other figments in order to lay claim to their (non-existent) land and resources. It is, frankly, embarrassing to me that I have created so many figments who take that absurdist shit seriously. You seem to be approaching the point where you recognize the answers you are seeking cannot be found in childish fantasies like religion or philosophy. As I’m busy with other figments and worlds, ultimately you will have to find your own faux-bliss within the faux-world I have trapped you in. Although it may seem odd to seek inspiration from movies in a world which does not exist, there is a certain logic in doing so. Movies are fantasies of life, just as life is a fantasy; like a dream, movies can offer snippets of insight to be mined, refined and applied to your own faux-existence. The obvious choice here would be to recommend _It’s a Wonderful Life_ in order to restore a sense of (false) hope for you, but quite frankly, fuck that shit. It’s Hollywood pabulum – an overextended _Twilight Zone_ episode - designed to get you to accept and be grateful for the fake-existence you have. Clearly, that’s not the problem here since you now know you have nothing including your own existence. Rather, I would recommend _Moulin Rouge_ (2001) for you. It is a brazenly artificial construct of a film, perfect for capturing a sense of a non-existent life. The only real essential part for you to understand is the film’s theme: “the greatest thing you’ll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.” Please do not misunderstand here: I am not suggesting that you should find (fake) love to resolve or distract you from your existential dilemmas. Fulfilling someone else’s needs is generally not a good way of satisfying your own. Rather, what I am suggesting is that finding someone you trust and feel comfortable confiding in is a very good way of throwing your own needs into sharper relief so that they will be easier for you to recognize and act upon. The fact that this hypothetical other person does not really exist should not be an issue because you do not really exist. Failing that, I have two other suggestions for easing your plight, one short-term, the other long-term. There is only one movie I have ever seen – by which I mean, created – that has had a demonstrably beneficial impact on those suffering like you. Note that watching it or any other movie offers at best only temporary relief, but even that can sometimes make an intolerable philosophical crisis seem less intimidating (and it’s cheaper, legal and not addicting like opium). > **[Dumbo (1941) ⭐ 7.2 | Animation, Adventure, Drama](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033563/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2)** > > 1h 4m | G This is a movie whose main character achieves bliss only after unimaginable suffering and deprivation. Note that it is only through finding a reliable and trusted friend that the main character is able to realize dreams long elusive. My last suggestion should be considered only in desperation. If you are at long last unable to reconcile knowledge of your non-existence in any practical way, these people can help you until such a way is found. [https://alcor.org/AboutAlcor/index.html](https://alcor.org/AboutAlcor/index.html) Good luck, and once again, my apologies for creating and abandoning you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/42 "2020-05-07T14:37:38Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > …Good luck, and once again, my apologies for creating and abandoning you. Fucking Bravo! The entire post. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/43 "2020-06-10T03:59:09Z")
> **[What if solipsism is true?](https://www.quora.com/What-if-solipsism-is-true)** > > Answer (1 of 24): At some level, solipsism must be true. > > At the most comprehensive level of what is, the all-encompassing, sum total of the Universe—the Universe’s perspective by definition I think has to be: “There is only me.” > > But at the opposite... "It is true, but it is a dead end to be an overtly uncompromising and dogmatic solipsist. Indeed, all we can know is that we “experience”, that we are “aware” - beyond that there is no certainty of anything, as to true 100% certainty or empirical provability. Even any words or symbols we use are constraints. constructs, and false as well - we cannot recognize (“be aware”, ”experience”) we know anything beyond that we do “have experience”. Everything else is up in the air, in that only what is actually Real and True hath not nary a care. Simply as solipsistical as that." I don’t know what it is about my brain that as soon as someone says something is true, like the above, then that makes it so. But is it true? Or is he referring to the soft form of solipsism? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/44 "2020-06-10T05:15:45Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > [URL=“[https://www.quora.com/What-if-solipsism-is-true](https://www.quora.com/What-if-solipsism-is-true)”] > I don’t know what it is about my brain that as soon as someone says something is true, like the above, then that makes it so. This is demonstrably not true–your entire history here is filled with people telling you things are true and you not believing it. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/45 "2020-06-10T05:58:13Z")
well for starters if my life is someone’s imagination all i can say is there one sick miserable sadistic bastard who could die and put me out of the misery thats been most of my life , The bad religion song “better off dead” sort of offers an apology for life on earth from the view of a creator tho its a grimly amusing ditty … ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/46 "2020-06-10T06:03:42Z")
It is nice to see that so many posters are trying to help you. Personally I don’t feel that you need to disprove solipsism. Same about the Matrix: I cannot rule out that we are all a simulation. Indeed, that seems more likely than that _I_ am the simulation (which is what solipsism amounts to). Furthermore, for a sufficiently broad definition of _I_ solipsism is actuallly true (i.e. Buddhism, Spinoza, Hegel). So for me the question is more: as long as you can’t make sure whether solipsism is true or not, why would it matter? If evething is just your imagination, you still seem to have no control over it. Which is exactly what reality is: something you don’t control. That metaphysically everything would be in your mind or in a world of atoms, quarks or strings, would be immaterial as long as that didn’t give you control. Things don’t become more real when they are configurations of string interactions: the universe may metaphysically simply be viewed as an enormous computer: a way to make calculations about matter and energy, and we perceive the results as our reality. And you could identify the totality simpy as the mind of God, in which case we are simply simulations in the mind of God. That is far from an original thought. So again: why would it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Acierocolotl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acierocolotl/32/6241_2.png) [@Acierocolotl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acierocolotl)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/47 "2020-06-10T13:14:20Z")
I just wanted to throw my own hat into this ring. I’m just going to follow up on Tusculan’s post. Myself, I think the answer to this question is “mu”. I remember your interest in Buddhism so this term shouldn’t be unfamiliar to you. If not, consider a basic koan: Q: Does a dog have Buddha nature? A: Mu. Everything has a buddha nature. But buddha nature is also nonsense. The answer “mu” is, contextually, “irrelevant”.\* Q: Is the world real, or is it just my fevered imagination? A: Mu. Whether this world is real or not, you still here, in it. So you may as well make it a better place to be in, since you’ll be here for a goodly while yet. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/48 "2020-06-10T16:14:34Z")
> [@Acierocolotl](#): > > I just wanted to throw my own hat into this ring. I’m just going to follow up on Tusculan’s post. > > Myself, I think the answer to this question is “mu”. I remember your interest in Buddhism so this term shouldn’t be unfamiliar to you. If not, consider a basic koan: > > Q: Does a dog have Buddha nature? > A: Mu. > > Everything has a buddha nature. But buddha nature is also nonsense. The answer “mu” is, contextually, “irrelevant”.\* > > Q: Is the world real, or is it just my fevered imagination? > A: Mu. > > Whether this world is real or not, you still here, in it. So you may as well make it a better place to be in, since you’ll be here for a goodly while yet. So, nobody cares; it’s a cow’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/49 "2020-06-10T16:16:58Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But is it true? Or is he referring to the soft form of solipsism? What is the sound of _the soft porn_ of solipsism? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/50 "2020-06-10T17:15:11Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It doesn’t work that way. If everything isn’t real then it doesn’t matter what I do and any enjoyment is immediately gone. Why? Sit down and play a game of Monopoly with your friends. It isn’t “real.” But there is definite enjoyment. Live life the same way. Maybe it’s just an illusion…but there are rewards. You learn, you grow, you have a few laughs, you make friends. You can **never** “overcome” solipsism. It’s always a possibility. What you do is put an asterisk next to it, footnote it, and then move on. Because you can also never overcome the null hypothesis that the world is real. When Dr. Johnson kicked the rock…it hurt. Memo: don’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/51 "2020-06-10T17:46:51Z")
I’ve noticed that solipsists complain about a life wasted living an illusion. As if they’ve thought of something better they could spend that time doing. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/52 "2020-06-11T07:20:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Why? Sit down and play a game of Monopoly with your friends. It isn’t “real.” But there is definite enjoyment. > > Live life the same way. Maybe it’s just an illusion…but there are rewards. You learn, you grow, you have a few laughs, you make friends. > > You can **never** “overcome” solipsism. It’s always a possibility. What you do is put an asterisk next to it, footnote it, and then move on. Because you can also never overcome the null hypothesis that the world is real. > > When Dr. Johnson kicked the rock…it hurt. Memo: don’t do that. Except life wouldn’t be the same because if it were true then there would be no friends and I am utterly alone. You say there would be no difference between the two but it could not be more wrong. Solipsism being true would render everything else pointless which is why I am scared of it (though slowly waning). I don’t think people grasp the problem of it. As for what I said about the guy saying it was true, it’s more like I believe things more readily because they make me feel bad in a sort of “the truth hurts” sort of way, while if it is something that is helpful then I’m choosing the easy way out instead of facing harsh reality. ---
**Author:** ![Acierocolotl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acierocolotl/32/6241_2.png) [@Acierocolotl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acierocolotl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/53 "2020-06-11T07:32:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So, nobody cares; it’s a cow’s opinion. Hah! Took me a second to connect the dots, and that doesn’t reflect well on me. If I were a solipsist, I’d be the handsomest and smartest man in my universe, I tell you what. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/54 "2020-06-11T13:53:08Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > As for what I said about the guy saying it was true, it’s more like I believe things more readily because they make me feel bad in a sort of “the truth hurts” sort of way, while if it is something that is helpful then I’m choosing the easy way out instead of facing harsh reality. Not all pain leads to enlightenment. Some pain is just pain for pain’s sake. Which is fine if you’re into that sort of thing. Otherwise, I recommend you stop beating your head against that brick wall. You may find that your quality of life will improve dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/55 "2020-06-11T21:17:54Z")
To believe in solipsism requires a massive, just cartoonishly absurd ego. Because it’s claiming personal credit for _everything_. Your typical solipsist is a person of, we’ll say average intelligence, who is consciously aware that they only have limited conscious awareness and knowledge, who nonetheless claims that their average mind is also producing _literally the entire world_ out of its imagination. That smart guy I met? He’s really _me_. Albert Einstein? Also me. Tom Cruise? Also me. It’s literally a declaration that you’re God - but specifically a god that created the universe _entirely on the basis of their incredible brains._ Suffice to say, any sort of rational self-reflection will cause any sane person to reject the idea that their subconscious mind is a hundred trillion times smarter than they are, and thus solipsism is tossed right back into the college dorm wastebasket. Which is not to say that reality-as-we-perceive-it exists objectively in the exact form that we, well, perceive it. But the notion that your limited brain has tucked within its back corners the capacity to imagine (and organize, and keep track of) _everything_ is both impossibly boastful and staggeringly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/56 "2020-06-11T21:25:45Z")
I am going to take a nap. I will probably not be back this way again. Chicago can be taken down. The illusion is no longer needed. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/57 "2020-06-11T23:48:31Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Except life wouldn’t be the same because if it were true then there would be no friends and I am utterly alone. You say there would be no difference between the two but it could not be more wrong. Solipsism being true would render everything else pointless which is why I am scared of it (though slowly waning). I don’t think people grasp the problem of it. . . . Well, I disagree. I could enjoy a holodeck just as much, knowing it’s a sim, as I would while believing it to be real. Actually, I might enjoy a sim a bit more, because I could take chances I can’t take in real life. I’ve got an “emergency exit” that real life does not offer. But the main point here is: you cannot know. There is no conceivable test or experiment that will tell you whether the world is false or real. None. Solipsism can _never_ be rejected. I just doesn’t have to be an issue, either. Just shrug and get on with life. I do sympathize! I seriously do! I read Heinlein’s short story “They” at a tender age, and it screwed up my entire life. I think we all have these feelings to some degree. Just…don’t let it hurt you. It ain’t worth it! ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/58 "2020-06-12T01:40:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > To believe in solipsism requires a massive, just cartoonishly absurd ego. Because it’s claiming personal credit for _everything_. Your typical solipsist is a person of, we’ll say average intelligence, who is consciously aware that they only have limited conscious awareness and knowledge, who nonetheless claims that their average mind is also producing _literally the entire world_ out of its imagination. That smart guy I met? He’s really _me_. Albert Einstein? Also me. Tom Cruise? Also me. > > It’s literally a declaration that you’re God - but specifically a god that created the universe _entirely on the basis of their incredible brains._ > > Suffice to say, any sort of rational self-reflection will cause any sane person to reject the idea that their subconscious mind is a hundred trillion times smarter than they are, and thus solipsism is tossed right back into the college dorm wastebasket. > > Which is not to say that reality-as-we-perceive-it exists objectively in the exact form that we, well, perceive it. But the notion that your limited brain has tucked within its back corners the capacity to imagine (and organize, and keep track of) _everything_ is both impossibly boastful and staggeringly stupid. That’s not really an understanding of what solipsism is. It’s the idea that, beyond the self, nothing can be known for certain. There are different degrees of that but that is the core, and alas it is true. I cannot for sure verify that there are “other people” with minds and that the world isn’t a figment, it’s not arrogance it’s just the limits of our ability to know things. Extreme versions of solipsism say nothing else besides me exists which is something they can’t prove or know so that is ridiculous, but the “softer” forms of it are true. And that is what bothered me about the comment that he said it was true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/59 "2020-06-12T01:44:53Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That’s not really an understanding of what solipsism is. It’s the idea that, beyond the self, nothing can be known for certain. Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778/60 "2020-06-12T01:55:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Are you sure? Does anyone really know what time it is? Does anyone really care? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overcoming-solipsism/852778.md?page=4)