Overdraft fees suck

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

ok this is my first post on here and my first visit. my friend told me this site is cool, with some intellectual people on it. maybe i just scrolled down to a bad part, but the “do you mean to say you’ve never gone 37 in a 35” has seriously got to be one of the dumbest arguments i’ve ever heard/read. i was military police in the marines (and yes i know it’s not the same as civilian cops…especially because we had to know state AND federal laws…but that’s another argument) and there is no way way 37 in a 35 is even considered speeding, and if it was, no cop in this world would be bothered by it. try your argument with over 10mph, that’ll get you pulled over.

but am i right in believing that according to your “argument” anyone who does wrong, no matter how minute, is deserving of the consequences no matter how severe? i’ll assume that’s what you meant because your example was retarded so I feel deserving of an assumption.

there is a concept in the police world (unfortunately not many follow it) which says there is the “spirit of the law,” and “letter of the law.” google it if you don’t know what it means. to be hit with those kinds of overdraft fees is excessive. did this person deserve it, probably. most banks give you a couple mulligans before they enforce the fees. and yeah, better bookeeping and awareness of one’s finances will keep you away from this crap. but sometimes the end doesn’t justify the means.

so really i have no real comment about the original poster. i had chase a few years back and naturally due to my own stupidity, i went over…but for real, i went over 73 cents, got hit with an over draft fee, refused to pay it, and soon learned an interesting fact from Chase. if you are overdrawn you get hit with a fine of $5 a day and a weekly fine of $12 i think. so all said and done i was closed out at $280. i called, complained, talk to some douche bag who said my account was closed and he would do me a “onesy” and wipe my debt. so about 2 months later i get a call from a collection agency…you know how that goes. the debt was never wiped. i go to Chase, complain, manager says it’s in collections, nothing they can do, sucks to be me. so i went to WAMU, and they have done me good…but i guess since God finds it funny to screw with me, he decided the Chase would take over WAMU…good times.

so in the end, after all this babble i really have no point to make. that speeding comment just pissed me off…i hate stupidity, and that argument, not the person, is stupid. i attack the argument, not the person.

so yeah, enough babble

42

Welcom usmc8408. Glad to meet a new 'doper.

WAMU regularly screwed me, so I opened an account at BOA.

I made identical charges the same day using check cards from each bank.

My BOA charge showed up online the next day.
The WAMU charge showed up many days later.

WAMU explained that they have 60 days to process a charge. They have the habit of processing charges the day before my direct deposit arrives. (when my balance is normally the lowest and so that the festival of charging $34 OD fees can begin)

I only write 2 checks per month - rent and my vanpool fee. I rarely use cash and have tried to note every charge I make using my bankcard but once in a while a small amount is forgotten after a week or so. WAMU used this against me - BOA does not.

I wish I were as perfect as some of those here - Instead I closed my WAMU account.

43

But you need to make a minimim income at my bank to get overdraft protection, which at my bank is $35,000. I don’t make that much, so I can’t get it.

Recently (and I know this is all my fault, but still…) I went on a vacation and neglected to contact one of the companies I owe some money to and that I’ve been negotiating a payment plan with to let them know I would be away and unable to make a payment, and arrange to do it when I got back. They presented a check to my bank. I did not have enough funds to cover this check, but the bank honored it anyways, since it was within $100 of my balance. Now that morning, I had managed to get online to check my balance before making some small purchases with my check card in another country. My balance was, say, $150. I spent about $60. I felt confident that everything was fine. Three days later, when I was able to get to a computer again, I discovered that the bank had cleared the check, then the four charges I made…so I had an overdraft fee, and four more overdraft fees, and then a negative balance fee…five charges of $37.50, then $8 a day for every day you are overdrawn. then when my direct deposit hit, it was sucked down by the overdraft fees, and then my automatic payment for my phone went through and the overdraft fees started again…by the time I got back in the country, there were over $265 in fees. The bank forgave $112, which brought me up to $11…until the overdraft fees from the last transacation hit…I’m currently -$82 dollars. I have $2.28 cents to my name until payday…and there is that $8 a day for the next week, and this will be a smaller than average paycheck because of the vacation…so…sigh.

If they had bounced the check, there would have been one NSF fee of $37.50, which I had funds to cover. But they honored it, and the next few months of my life will be spent in even more poverty than I’m usually in.

And before you ask…the vacation was paid for by someone else as a gift to me. I was not wasting money on a fancy trip when I’m seriously in debt.

44

Wow! Kittenblue, I’m so sorry that happened to you. I feel that a reasonable fee is perfectly valid. These multiple charges that are happening to too many people are out of hand.

45

Not perfect, by any means- just very conscientious about things that could cost me money and hassles. Sheesh- since when is personal responsibility something only assholes possess? I liked the post upthread about getting caught doing something wrong- I don’t bitch if I get a ticket, because getting caught was my fault for doing it, not the cop’s fault for catching me doing it. He’s not the jerk- he’s just doing his job.

And yes, I will concede that it is more likely that poor people who are living close to the bone will probably incur more OD fees, which only serve to drive them deeper into debt. But I remember plenty of people from my days at the credit union who simply didn’t bother to keep track of their spending, never balanced their checkbooks, and were quick to blame the financial institution for their own stupidity.

YMMV, of course.

46

Wow, defensive much? No one here ever claimed to be perfect, but we do claim to take reasonable steps to ensure that we aren’t hit with these kind of fees. We also accept them for what they are, and don’t complain when they spring up.

Mistakes do happen, and everyone makes them. How you handle them is the important part.

On preview, what EJsGirl said.

I think the current regulatory system works out just fine.

So, do you disagree with all markup? We’ve debunked this idea that banks process them this way to screw someone over. Again, if they were processed the opposite way, your pack of gum might clear, but that rent check may not. You think folks would be any happier? It’s a rock and a hard place for the bank, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. From this consumer’s perspective, it’s fair and legal.

I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer on your situation at all, and I really am sorry that it happened to you. But I wanted to point out that this quote seems pretty typical of those here criticizing teh big evil bank! – damn them good, they’re screwing everyone, I admittedly made a mistake, but still!

Again, not to call you out, and I don’t want to come off as critical of you or your situation. Your first line just flew off the page at me.

47

No, we don’t have hawaiin shirt day, although we do the occasional casual day.

My industry is community banking. We do a great job of serving the community needs. We didn’t originate any mortgage loans in the last 10 years, we just don’t provide that product. We have an obligation per our mission statement to serve the community, customers, and shareholders.

Well, I’m glad that you are the decider of all that is moral. Get off your high horse. You sound like a whiner who signed a 1 year ARM and didn’t realize that the payment could actually increase, even though it says in BIG BOLD LETTERS that the payment can increase. You want to world to forgive you for not reading the disclosures? Give me a fucking break.
Tell me, at what APR does a loan become immoral? At what dollar amount is an OD fee immoral? What’s the charge for a checking account, an ATM fee, or a Cashiers Check fee that is moral vs. immoral?

$70,000 plus incentive compensation of up to 25% of my base pay and the occasional round of stock options. And I earn every fucking cent of it Although the bonus won’t happen this year.

Sounds good, because as soon as I get a better offer, I’ll jump ship to a different bank. There are always other community banks that want the experience and knowledge I can provide.

If you really want to hate on me, know that the reason I was brought on to my current institution is the ability to centralize our processing from our branches to a centralized location. We had to cut 19 positions that were no longer necessary, and I got the duty to announce the layoffs. You know what though, we can provide better, more consistent, cheaper service to our customers by doing this. We also can provide better control and comply more fully with regulations and the FDIC gave us kudos for it when they were in last month. I can’t wait for our internal auditors to come through this year. I’ve addressed all the concerns they’ve had for the last 5 years that no one else has either been able to or would. So I don’t really give a shit what you think.

Tell me, at what percentage rate does a loan become immoral? At what dollar amount is an OD fee immoral? What’s the charge for a checking account, an ATM fee, or a Cashiers Check fee that is moral vs. immoral?

If people really feel that banks are immoral, go ahead and move to a credit union.
OR, if you really feel that all banks/credit unions/thrifts/savings and loans are bad bad bad… go ahead and live a cash only lifestyle. You can buy money orders. You can even get pre-paid credit cards. Then you won’t ever have to deal with a bank again.

48

The UK has recently started telling banks that their fees like for ODs can only be to recoup the actual losses the bank suffered. I.e., pennies. Setting the fees to $20+ is pure greed. US consumers are suckers to put up with this.

Some states would like to control some of these things but the Feds have banned states from most controls over such matters (which did not use to be the case). And since the federal regulators kowtow to the banks, yowzer. Hello 35% APR credit cards.

49

Speeding tickets probably are not the best analogy, because I doubt if anyone ever gets a ticket for going 2 miles over limit.

50

I use Commece Bank well used them because they were recently taken over by TB Bank. Commerce had a nice policy where if you did overdraw your checking account (which I occasional did on accident) if you made a cash deposit be close of business day equal to the amount you were negative there were no fees.

This has saved my bacon a few times

51

The multiple charges I was billed by WAMU versus no charges by my previous bank - Commerce and no charges by BOA indicate a difference in bank processing. I’m the same person doing pretty much the same things in all cases, so I hold certain banks at fault. WAMU holds check card purchases so that multiple fees will be assessed. The 2 other banks don’t.

It seemed to me that the OP took responsibility for her error. It was the bank pile on that upset her.

It’s of course everyone’s responsibility to read all the fine print in every transaction made, and I suppose it’s silly to expect a spirit of fairness and decent customer service from a firm these days, but the expectation of a certain amount of understanding of another’s situation instead of being told “it’s your own fault” isn’t unreasonable.

If I’d say I was running and fell and my knee was killing me, it really wouldn’t help for others to come in to explain how carefully they’ve been running for the last 5 years and if I fell it was my own fault. I’d know it was my fault and I’d wonder how pointing this out to me would help.

52

Because in the future, I’m sure the OP will be much more aware of recording transactions in a register, or at least being aware of what others are doing on the account.

53

We have friends who are frequently overdrawn. You’d think they’d learn after the first few hundred in fees, but nope…it’s always “those fuckers at the bank.” A big hearty “duh” to them.

54

You sidestepped the question. Banks and other lenders used to charge exorbitant rates on loans. Someone decided that was too much. Others, like you, probably felt that if someone didn’t like the rates they should just go elsewhere. So why do you feel usury laws are just but limiting OD fees should be set by the free market?

Show me where I said I disagree with all markup. As a matter of fact, I already said I gave no indication it shouldn’t be a profit center.

You can claim “we” debunked the idea of banks doing it this way to screw the customer, but your opinion is not, in fact, the end all to this.

If a bank posts things from smallest to biggest all the checks are STILL cleared since the consumer has OD protection. The rent still gets paid as does the car payment. The only difference is that the bank doesn’t collect as much in OD fees.

If the consumer doesn’t have OD protection then the consumer will have FEWER NSF fees from the bank and FEWER NSF fees from the merchants who who tried to cash the checks. The consumer isn’t going to lose their house or their car over one bounced check. They will have to pay the fee to the merchant and move on. But in either case, the consumer comes out ahead if the bank posts these things smallest to biggest.

55

Ironically, I don’t even bank at a “regular” bank. I have a financial management account through my brokerage, as does the rest of my family. My brilliant-but-at-the-same-time-an-idiot MIL never keeps track of her finances. Our account VP calls us if she has a bunch of checks ready to clear and there are insufficient funds. They give me the opportunity to fax over a Letter of Authorization with a transfer of cash from another account so her checks never bounce.

It’s pretty cool. I don’t know if they do it for everybody, but as a two-sided family we’ve got an unholy amount of money with them, so maybe it’s a perk.

Doesn’t mean I don’t think my MIL is lame for doing what she does, though.

56

Because competition in banking will decide which banks survive. I’m in favor of requiring banks to disclose fees, simply in the interest of not misleading the consumer. But if a bank wants to charge $500 per OD, I’m fine with that. If a payday loan place wants to charge you 1000% interest, I’m fine with that. And if you open an account there, you’re fine with that. Don’t bitch when you get hit with that fee, though.

If the consumer does not have an OD protection source linked, such as a credit line, this is not true. There is a limit on what the banks will process, and it depends on the instutition and your account. You may be allowed to overdraw by $50, or by $100, or maybe more. So if you have $500 in the bank and you’re allowed a cushion of $100 overdrawn, in your system, the charges of $10 and $20 go through, but that car payment of $600 gets bounced, because it would make you $130 in the hole. That could be the difference between repossession and not.

If you don’t like the rules made by the bank, don’t bank there. QED.

57

A certain Wells Fargo, once upon a time, made a clerical error when processing a check I had written. Instead of thirty five dollars and seventy two cents, the check ran for three thousand five hundred seventy two dollars. Of course that check was processed first. And, somehow, my zero-balance over-draft protection account was “temporarily unavailable” that day.

Massive bouncing ensued.

After four months of providing supporting documentation, and a letter from my attorney, they refunded $3464.28. Shortly after they were informed that a lawsuit had been filed by my attorney, they reversed all 47 bazilion NSF fees. That branch (never mentioned whether Corporate approved or not, but I suspect they were fine with it, right up until the moment their lawyer looked over my attorney’s disclosure-type stuff) later claimed that processing payment every 3rd day was “more efficient and profitable.”

More profitable. Gee, ya THINK?!

In the meantime, I got to pay the merchant fees on all the other checks I had written (that would have cleared, had W-F had process the checks in order of date written, and/or not screwed up in the first place) that weekend, and have the D.A. not pursue criminal charges against me (thanks to my lawyer) for bouncing a boatload of checks.

Banks are evil, and one MUST stay on top of every detail of every transaction every freaking minute, while following the first law of Law, which is document, document, document.

That being said, some banks are more evil than others.

58

Oh, honey, you’re lowballing the worth of your soul. You need to go into debt collection. Similar base pay and bennies, plus high 5- or low 6-figure commssion, if you’re beyond barely competent.

Oh, yes, you’ll earn every penny, but if you are responsible and frugal, you can retire at 50 and stay on your high horse well into your seventies.

59

I really don’t understand the people that are saying the multiple charges are justified by the bank.

If I’m reading correctly, the bank will put through all of the charges. i.e. rent, gum, sweater purchase, car insurance.

If they put it through:

gum
sweater
car
rent

one of the charges will bounce, and one fee will be assessed.

If they put it through:

rent
gum
sweater
car

all of the charges will bounce, and four fees will be assessed.

How can anyone possibly say that in a situation where they’re honouring all four charges, regardless of the amount of $$ in the account, putting them through in such away (which doesn’t appear to be chronological) as to bounce all of them is fair.

If they’re going to honour the charges they should do so in such a way that the person banking with them pays only one fee.

And I’m saying this as a person who never bounces cheques and doesn’t have OD fees.

Frankly, some of you people getting up in the OPs grille sound rather smug and self satisfied. Bully for you that you have one brazillion dollars in your account. So do I but it doesn’t mean I can’t recognize when someone is being screwed by their bank.

60

Why is the banking industry, alone of all consumer services, entitled to exact the kinds of punishment that they do? If you spill a beer in a bar do they make you mop the floor?

There is no justification for the stacking of transactions to maximize fees. There is no other word than despicable for the practice of allowing small purchases when the customer has the money, and shifting the “available balance” and the “ledger balance” around so that, somehow, when another transaction comes in that day, the last one gets paid and then the pack of gum and the latte and the dry cleaning overdraw the account three times. (Even more important than watching one’s balance is simply not to use your debit card for small things if money’s tight).

I’ve seen that happen so many times. Suddenly I seem to have extra money in my account, which can legitimately happen around tax refund time, but no, it’s only because some debit card purchases that were formerly deducted from my available balance have been put back, to be re-subtracted later. I know better now than to think I just made a mistake in my arithmetic, or that the bank’s online program is not up to date.

My suggestion to the banks is this:

Just approve our debit card purchases when the money is there. Do not approve them when the money is not there. We would rather suffer mild embarrasment than further overdraw our accounts. And if a check or other transaction comes in later in the day and there is not enough to cover it, just bounce the fucking check. Do not unsubtract the piddling debit card items, pay the check, and then resubtract the debit purchases with overdraft fees. Protecting the unwise from themselves? Not at all. If you run a hotel, do you rent someone a room when they don’t have the money? Then the bank shouldn’t let someone use their debit card to buy something when they don’t have the money.

When these things happen, then I’ll nod and say “yes absolutely” when people come over all sanctimonious about this.