# Overhaul needed in DWI law & enforcement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435 "2009-06-02T01:11:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/101 "2009-06-05T22:45:15Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > You didn’t answer my objection. Your “unusually inquisitive” is a violation of Fourth Amendment rights. Plain and simple. Our Constitution says no unwarranted search. > > If using the public roads (which one can’t travel anywhere much beyond their own block, at best, without using) counts as a waiving of rights what the fuck meaning do my Constitutional rights have at all? > > If the government wants to violate them all it has to do is say I can’t use a road if I want to exercise them. Suddenly I’m either in house arrest or the right is effectively stolen. > What good are rights one can’t leave their house without “consenting to waive” > > It’s a bullshit reason pure and simple. Chief Justice Rehnquist admitted it was a Constitutional violation- but “only a little one.” :rolleyes: > **[Opinion: Why Are DUI Sobriety Checkpoints Constitutional?](http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/09/921.asp)** > > Attorney Lawrence Taylor explains the constitutionality of DUI roadblocks. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/102 "2009-06-05T23:23:36Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > And, to round out the triangle, there is enough of this activity in society that you can’t get _too_ punitive about it. You can’t go and ruin someone’s entire life with an incarceration term for this kind of stuff, as it’s probably not going to displace the primacy that alcohol has in society and it will have a really really bad impact on the individual offender. Yes, everyone is doing background checks, and once they see the DUI, they reject you–for a job, an apartment, Jesus, even a job as a gardener. The result is that people think, “Well, my life is screwed anyway, so why should I worry about punishment?” > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Here in British Columbia, if you blow 0.10 on the roadside you will get a **criminal** conviction for exceeding 0.08. Federal law. At least you can attempt to defend against it. You get a court ordered fine and a licence suspension. > > If you blow 0.05 to 0.10, you get an automatic 24 hour roadside suspension involving an inflated towing and storage fee (provincially mandated). > > Do that twice and you can add a 16 hour course for which you pay over $1000, lose your licence indefinitely and pay $150 to get a new licence. There is no avenue for defense because there is no conviction. > > But what galls me most is that very few British Columbians are aware that the “legal limit” here is 0.05 bac. If the provincial government were serious about reducing the effects of drinking and driving you’d think they’d be educating us on the tv. > > There are too many people who still live in the past, assuming you’ve got to stumble to the vehicle in order to be determined drunk. I heard that if you’ve gotten a DUI in the US they won’t even let you go into Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/103 "2009-06-05T23:53:01Z")
If there is a problem with enforcement regarding DUI in this country, I feel it would be the monetary aspect. An NBA player or a millionaire could afford to get a DWI infraction, and pay the fines, once per day for his entire career. A blue-collar worker at minimum wage can barely afford to be caught once. The behavior is equally abhorrent, but the fine is not equally deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/104 "2009-06-06T03:45:04Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Yes, everyone is doing background checks, and once they see the DUI, they reject you–for a job, an apartment, Jesus, even a job as a gardener. > > The result is that people think, “Well, my life is screwed anyway, so why should I worry about punishment?” > > I heard that if you’ve gotten a DUI in the US they won’t even let you go into Canada. Not fair, they have better beer. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/105 "2009-06-06T04:04:33Z")
I really think they need to do a better job educating people about DUI consequences–they aren’t much of a deterrent if you don’t know about them, and I think many people do not–tehy know it’s “bad”, but not the details. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/106 "2009-06-06T04:07:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Isn’t Dallas the city that had cops waiting to pounce on people at a hotel bar and arrest them as they went to their room? [Indeed they were](http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A361682). They arrested people in bars. They attempted to shut down nightclubs for selling alcohol to patrons _over_ the age of 21. It made them look very silly indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/107 "2009-06-06T08:16:38Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I heard that if you’ve gotten a DUI in the US they won’t even let you go into Canada. Indeed. I vacation to Victoria every other year or so. They warn you on the vacation website, when you reserve, when you hit the terminal, once you get on the ferry then when you hit customs “If you have been convicted of DUI you may be denied access.” A customer told me a story about going on a vacation with his kids and grandkids. They got the whole family together, three generations. They all get to the border and they refused to let him in. He had to turn around and go home while his family went on their vacation for a DUI he got when he was a kid, 30-40 years ago. Humiliating. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/108 "2009-06-06T08:21:26Z")
How do they know? They do a background check on everyone crossing the border? Isn’t it one of the busiest borders in the world? ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/109 "2009-06-06T09:02:42Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > How do they know? They do a background check on everyone crossing the border? Isn’t it one of the busiest borders in the world? We had to give basic information when we signed up for the trip which I assume was just forwarded to proper authorities. When you showed up you showed your paperwork and they put your name into the computer (I’m assuming to check to see if they found anything) and told you to have a nice trip. I’m not sure how regular border crossings with no prior warning work though. Maybe just a spot check. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/110 "2009-06-06T16:22:10Z")
This is an interesting development. From today’s (6/6/09) Cleveland Plain Dealer [Link](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/60_repeat_dui_offenders_succes.html) > [@](#): > > In a state that averages more than 70,000 new DUI cases a year, the Ohio Supreme Court has acknowledged that repeat offenders might need more help than most jurisdictions provide. For the past several years, the Supreme Court has encouraged jurisdictions to establish DUI Courts – specialized dockets offering intensive treatment programs, special attention and even holistic therapy for problem drinkers repeatedly in trouble with the law. > > So far six Ohio courts – in Marion, Richland, Clermont, Butler, Athens and Summit counties – have established DUI dockets, paid for by federal grant money. Clermont’s was the first, started about three years ago. The model is still being studied to determine its effectiveness. > > But Melissa Knopp, manager of the Supreme Court’s specialized-dockets section, said the court is hopeful that treating the underlying causes of alcohol abuse will dramatically reduce recidivism and give offenders a real shot at recovery from their addictions. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/111 "2009-06-06T16:52:15Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > This is an interesting development. From today’s (6/6/09) Cleveland Plain Dealer [Link](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/60_repeat_dui_offenders_succes.html) I’m not even sure how to read that, if the state averages 70 k DUI each year and new ones to boot, that would read between 04 and 08 there would be 280 k or just over a quarter of a million felony offenders, depending on when these stats were compiled. I could probably find the most recent census figures for Ohio, but assuming that these were the gross figures that also included temporary suspensions and the like , right up to felony convictions, but seriously when does the state run out of drivers? I also get that a number of these were probably out of state and Canadian drivers, but still. Declan ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/112 "2009-06-06T21:04:44Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > I’m not even sure how to read that, if the state averages 70 k DUI each year and new ones to boot, that would read between 04 and 08 there would be 280 k or just over a quarter of a million felony offenders, depending on when these stats were compiled. > > I could probably find the most recent census figures for Ohio, but assuming that these were the gross figures that also included temporary suspensions and the like , right up to felony convictions, but seriously when does the state run out of drivers? > > I also get that a number of these were probably out of state and Canadian drivers, but still. > > Declan I hadn’t noted the stats that you did, Declan. I was more interested in the treatment over punishment angle. Good catch. Assuming those stats are accurate, you are incorrect that those arrested would be felonies. In Ohio the first 3 DUIs are misdemeanors with increasingly severe penalties. Any over 3 would be felonies. A chart of Ohio DUI penalties is available in .pdf format [Here](http://www.ghmc.org/education_penaltyCharts.asp). Click on page 2 of the impaired driving chart. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/113 "2009-06-06T21:42:53Z")
A friend of mine once went to a State Police barracks in Massachusetts to participate in a study. He’s a pretty hardcore drinker (in fact, he’s a drinking buddy) and has been for over about 20 years. The study consisted of the police serving beer and taking a measure of everyone’s BAC after every beer (or maybe every 2 beers, I forget). Apparently some of the beer they confiscate goes into a large walk-in refrigerator and they use that for these studies. The troopers came to his house at around 6 am, picked him up and brought him to the barracks where there were about 20 other people: different genders, different builds, different ages, etc. They cracked open their first beer at 7:30 am (after orientation and signing a bunch of forms). They sat around playing cards, bullshitting, and some played drinking games. My buddy said it took him until around 11:00 am and 8 beers later to blow a .08. That’s drinking at a pretty steady clip for almost 3.5 hours. I’ve never been pulled over (I drank and drove a bit when I was younger and stupid, but haven’t once in at least 10 years) so I never took an official breathalyzer, so I was surprised to learn how one actually feels in accordance with the measured BAC. The troopers in the study explained at the beginning, as part of the orientation, that anyone who says they had 2 beers but blows a .08 is really full of shit and that they’d see how true that was. So that was kind of interesting, I thought, especially after hearing people downplay the .08 legal limit. Apparently, a .08 gives you a fair amount of room to have a couple drinks and not worry about a DUI conviction. I did take a breathalyzer once, now that I think about it. I went to Munich, Germany a long time ago with AF buddies and we went to the Hofbrau House. I got completely shitfaced. In the back they had a breathalyzer machine. I think you’d put money in and out would come a straw that you’d use to blow into the machine. I remember blowing a .24… I was having trouble walking at this point. I can’t believe people would actually get behind the wheel at that level of inebriation. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/114 "2009-06-06T22:00:03Z")
While the penalties applied to first time offenders do not need to be increased, it is people like Ms. Pugh below who need to be locked up for a long, long time (I’m talking decades): [http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6460006.html](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6460006.html) “Cheryl Anne Guberman, 44, a married mother of four from the Woodlands, was killed May 28.” “The crash data computer taken from Pugh’s Chrysler Sebring showed she was traveling 115 mph just five seconds before hitting Guberman’s pickup, a criminal complaint shows. One-tenth of a second before impact, Pugh was driving 100 mph and hadn’t hit the brakes, according to court records.” “Tests revealed Pugh had a blood alcohol level of 0.19 — well above the state’s legal limit of 0.08, said Chief Mark Herman of the Harris County Precinct 4 Constable’s Office.” "Pugh refused to submit to field sobriety tests or provide a breath sample when she was arrested, court records show, but a mandatory blood sample taken at a hospital revealed her blood alcohol level. She was [previously] convicted of drunken driving in 2007." ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/115 "2009-06-06T22:50:24Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Indeed. I vacation to Victoria every other year or so. They warn you on the vacation website, when you reserve, when you hit the terminal, once you get on the ferry then when you hit customs “If you have been convicted of DUI you may be denied access.” There are [Canadian immigration waivers](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/rehabil.asp)available for cases like this, but you have to apply in advance. I’ve worked on a few cases like this, and waivers are more likely to be approved if they are for minor offenses that happened a long time ago, particularly if there was only one offense. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/116 "2009-06-07T00:52:15Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > A friend of mine once went to a State Police barracks in Massachusetts to participate in a study. He’s a pretty hardcore drinker (in fact, he’s a drinking buddy) and has been for over about 20 years. The study consisted of the police serving beer and taking a measure of everyone’s BAC after every beer (or maybe every 2 beers, I forget). Apparently some of the beer they confiscate goes into a large walk-in refrigerator and they use that for these studies. The troopers came to his house at around 6 am, picked him up and brought him to the barracks where there were about 20 other people: different genders, different builds, different ages, etc. They cracked open their first beer at 7:30 am (after orientation and signing a bunch of forms). They sat around playing cards, bullshitting, and some played drinking games. My buddy said it took him until around 11:00 am and 8 beers later to blow a .08. That’s drinking at a pretty steady clip for almost 3.5 hours. I’ve never been pulled over (I drank and drove a bit when I was younger and stupid, but haven’t once in at least 10 years) so I never took an official breathalyzer, so I was surprised to learn how one actually feels in accordance with the measured BAC. The troopers in the study explained at the beginning, as part of the orientation, that anyone who says they had 2 beers but blows a .08 is really full of shit and that they’d see how true that was. So that was kind of interesting, I thought, especially after hearing people downplay the .08 legal limit. Apparently, a .08 gives you a fair amount of room to have a couple drinks and not worry about a DUI conviction. I think your buddy would have to weigh well over 300lbs for this to be true. I’m larger than average (~200lbs), and IIRC my 4th drink would put me at .08. That’s why I absolutely never drive if I’ve had 4, and on the rare occasions that I have 3 and need to drive, I wait quite awhile. Tolerance has nothing to do with BAC, by the way. I’m not sure if you think it does but that seems to be an implication of your story. And .08 is a moot point in Arizona 'cause you’re getting nailed to the wall at .05. Jail time, interlock device, etc. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/117 "2009-06-07T01:03:35Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Indeed. I vacation to Victoria every other year or so. They warn you on the vacation website, when you reserve, when you hit the terminal, once you get on the ferry then when you hit customs “If you have been convicted of DUI you may be denied access.” > > A customer told me a story about going on a vacation with his kids and grandkids. They got the whole family together, three generations. They all get to the border and they refused to let him in. He had to turn around and go home while his family went on their vacation for a DUI he got when he was a kid, 30-40 years ago. Humiliating. That’s bullshit right there. I got a DUI in 1991 when I was 21 years old, and it is NOT on my record. I also want to chime in and say that drunk driving is abhorrent. The problem with the laws is setting a standard for everyone that doesn’t apply to everyone. As others have stated, there are LEGION reasons for impaired driving, drunkeness included. Stupidity, failure to obey basic road safety, speeding, cellphone/text usage, fatigue (probably the worst), a sense of entitlement…all of these can and do injure or kill people. I realize that drunk driving kills a lot of people and that it should be punished harshly from the get-go. However, having two beers in an hour and subsequently being pulled over for a bullshit reason and ending up a criminal because you blew right at the stupidly low legal limit of .08 is ridiculous. The limit is too low because of politics (and scare groups like MADD), not from some demonstrable impairment threshold between .08 and .1, which is what the limit use to be, and in my mind was acceptable compared to other conditions a driver may suffer from that impairs them equally without alcohol in the equation and which they rarely if ever are punished for if they cause an accident. Field sobriety tests should be administered FIRST in all cases of suspected DUI, or for people that are impaired for some other reason a breathalyzer will not reveal. Or, if you’re stone cold sober, you should have the option at a checkpoint to cut through the BS and skip to the breathalyzer step just so you can go about your way. If you’ve had two to three beers (and are over the breathalyzer limit) and you can demonstrate that you’re capable of passing a field sobriety test as well or better than a plethora of other people whom cannot that haven’t had a drop of booze, then you should be allowed to go on your way. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/118 "2009-06-07T01:48:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > That’s bullshit right there. I got a DUI in 1991 when I was 21 years old, and it is NOT on my record. Not your driving record, but it is on your [NCIC](http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm) record. And [Canada is accessing the NCIC database](https://www.huntingreport.com/hunting_article_details.cfm?id=1006) to exclude undesirables. It [does not make any difference](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/23/NEVIUS.TMP)how long ago you were convicted, either: > [@](#): > > Take the case of 55-year-old Lake Tahoe resident Greg Felsch. Stopped at the border in Vancouver this month at the start of a planned five-day ski trip, he was sent back to the United States because of a DUI conviction seven years ago. Not that he had any idea what was going on when he was told at customs: "Your next stop is immigration.‘’ > > Felsch was ushered into a room. “There must have been 75 people in line,” he says. "We were there for three hours. One woman was in tears. A guy was sent back for having a medical marijuana card. I felt like a felon with an ankle bracelet.‘’ > > Or ask the well-to-do East Bay couple who flew to British Columbia this month for an eight-day ski vacation at the famed Whistler Chateau, where rooms run to $500 a night. They’d made the trip many times, but were surprised at the border to be told that the husband would have to report to "secondary’’ immigration. > > There, in a room he estimates was filled with 60 other concerned travelers, he was told he was "a person who was inadmissible to Canada.‘’ The problem? A conviction for marijuana possession. In 1975. You are _persona non grata_ in Canada, my friend. And it will cost you $850 to be [considered for a rehabilitation waiver](http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/washington/imm/inadmissible_cr-interdiction_ar.aspx?lang=eng); if you are rejected, your $850 is non-refundable. They really don’t want you up there, eh? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/119 "2009-06-07T03:27:31Z")
Fortunately for me then, I have no desire to go there. Sucks that I can’t though, according to your rules. I have a hard time believing that Canada would refuse an American entry into their county over something that happened 17 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435/120 "2009-06-07T04:31:30Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > You didn’t answer my objection. Your “unusually inquisitive” is a violation of Fourth Amendment rights. Plain and simple. Our Constitution says no unwarranted search. That is not what the Constitution says; if you’re going to argue constitutional law, Jesus, at least look the amendment up. It says there shall be no **unreasonable** searches. Lots and lots of legal searches don’t involve a warrant. Many think it’s reasonable to engage in mild searches of people who are using state property to attempt to stop a crime that kills sixteen thousand Americans a year. You think it’s unreasonable. Let’s see what the courts say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overhaul-needed-in-dwi-law-enforcement/498435.md?page=7)