# Overnight guests in \*my\* dorm room... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2001, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043 "2001-08-31T00:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/121 "2001-09-11T01:41:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*Okay, maybe I missed this somewhere. > > I, a pretty helpless looking girl of 18, usually don’t walk around the city alone at night. > > Not to mince words, do I think that all men walking along the street, in the not-best neighborhood at 11pm-2am are potential rapists? Sorry, but yes. Maybe it’s total paranoia, but it’s a paranoia that hurts no one and keeps me safe. > \*\* Actually it does hurt someone. It hurts me when I am walking down that same street at about the same time you are and I see you cross the street to avoid walking beside me or check my position and actions over your shoulder every few seconds. I understand your point of view, I’ve been in situations where I had fears of being attacked on the street at night. I went to school downtown in a large metro area for my first couple of years of High School. I would often not leave to catch the bus home until after play rehersals and that would leave me catching the bus across town after 11, and that route ran through some pretty bad neighborhoods before reaching the suburbs, they changed the route after a certain time so less busses could service the same area and they could send most of the drivers home for the night. I had to walk seven city blocks to catch this bus and there were often strangers on the street who were there because they were vagrant or drunk. This didn’t stop when I got on the bus either and I was accosted more than once by a drunken passanger because I was wearing the school uniform and they took that to mean I was a spoiled rich kid who, of course, was the source of all their problems and they could vent to/at me(the advances from one mostly-toothless and inebriated lady were particularly disturbing and are still vivid over ten years after the event). It didn’t alleviate my fears at all to be six foot tall and built like a tank,(football practice until six then play rehersal till 10, stay afterward and clean up and remove all the scenery because we didn’t have a dedicated stage would take the extra time after 10) the fear was still there. What good are muscles against guns and knives? I believe I understand your fears AotL. And I will not dispute your right to these fears or your right to be concerned over the possibility that your roommate’s actions could bring(unintentional, but possibly severe) harm to you both. But I also believe I understand the point of view of the people who are taking exception to broad statements made about categories of people that they happen to belong to. They are feeling the same thing that I do when I see a woman cross the street to avoid me at night. An unreasoning sense of anger that she would assume I would be dangerous to her simply because she couldn’t tell me from Adam, even though I would sooner throw myself in front of bus than harm her. I am not asking you to trust everyone by default,(and I do not advocate giving up your protective habits, I am a father of two daughters and I plan to instill a healthy sense of caution in them) all I am asking is that you try to be a little more sensitive to general statements, especially ones which include almost half the population of the planet. Is that reasonable? Steven ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/122 "2001-09-11T03:28:54Z")
The Ryan: responding to your “answers”. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > > No, I think his point was that it is unreasonable to accuse someone you know almost nothing about of being a rapist. No one was accused. We REPEATED that to you, **over and over.** AoTL specifically stated that she knew that he _probably wasn’t_ a rapist. Sheesh. Custard Dragon quoted it like a kajillion times to you - so I KNOW you couldn’t have missed it. Do you understand the difference between “not wanting to take a chance because this person is a stranger” and directly accusing a specific individual of FOR SURE being something bad like a rapist? I guess you don’t. Next. > [@](#): > > No, I’m insulted by her assumptions, and I’m even more insulted by the way you (and I’m using the word in its plural sense) have completely ignored what I and other people have said, preferring shrill knee-jerk responses to honest communication. You imagined her “assumptions” that there was this SMALL risk that this strange guy could be capable of something bad to be an “accusation”. They were not. You were insulted by something that never happened. Next. > [@](#): > > I did not object to her assuming that rape is possible, I objected to her assuming that it was likely. You imagined that she thought it was “likely”. She didn’t EVER say it was likely. She in fact stated that she thought it _probably wouldn’t_ happen, but since he was a stranger, you never know. As Custard Dragon quoted multiple times to you. Next. > [@](#): > > People objected to AotL accusing this guy of being a rapist. She NEVER ACCUSED HIM OF BEING A RAPIST. Next. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > We are obviously not on the same page. > > Yes, that is true. And you seem to be going out of your way to stay on a different page. I beg to differ. It is obvious from what you _think_ AoTL said, and what she actually said, you are the one going out of your way to not be on the same page. > [@](#): > > Well, since you don’t really answer them…I really am lost. Yes, I did. [/quote] My apologies. I just could not fathom that you STILL were clinging to the delusion that there was some “accusation” that rape was “likely”, when it clearly never was. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Same goes for any gender - why can’t anyone just give rides to any random stranger, or let them stay overnight? > > Anyone **can** , but it is not wise. Why isn’t it “wise”? Could it be…because the strange person could be a…(drum roll)… **RAPIST?!?!?!** My gosh - that’s what this WHOLE FRICKIN’ THING HAS BEEN ABOUT!!! (Sorry for shouting.) She didn’t think it was _wise_ to take a risk around a stranger, who _might_ be capable of anything - good or bad. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Are you offended by the concept of wearing condoms as a form of protection from STDs? > > No. Why not? Why shouldn’t you feel “accused”? If a woman is “accusing” a man because she fears the _slight_ risk that he might be a rapist, why should she not be “accusing” him if she fears the _slight_ risk of HIV? I mean, **that’s all AoTL was doing** , and yet you thought she was “accusing” this guy. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/123 "2001-09-11T03:57:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by LaurAnge > > Not to mince words, do I think that all men walking along the street, in the not-best neighborhood at 11pm-2am are potential rapists? Sorry, but yes. Maybe it’s total paranoia, but it’s a paranoia that hurts no one and keeps me safe.\* > > Actually it does hurt someone. It hurts me when I am walking down that same street at about the same time you are and I see you cross the street to avoid walking beside me or check my position and actions over your shoulder every few seconds. I am not LaurAnge, but I wanted to comment on a bit of this. I appreciate that you understand why LaurAnge has the fears she does - but do you _really_ expect women to not take precautions (like “getting out of the path” of a stranger) because she _might_ hurt your feelings? The alternative is that she puts herself at a slightly higher risk of being mugged, or worse. We are taught to be cautious. Many of us took self-defense. Being aware of those around us is something we are coached to do. So forgive us, please. And I want to hasten to add here, lest my other references to this were overlooked - I _don’t_ think most women are “looking over our shoulder” or imagining every man we meet is capable of nefarious deeds. I don’t think about it one way or other when I am in my pottery class, or at the grocery store, or some other public, well-lit place. But when I am going down a lonely street in a bad part of town at night, or am in a lonely parking garage? Yes, my mindset changes, because I feel I am in a **vulnerable position**. (Those are the most important “key words” to this whole thing! 🙂 ) Then (and usually only then) I become more cautious and “paranoid”. That feeling of “paranoia” won’t change for most of us. And I don’t think it should, unless society all of a sudden turns into a crime-free utopia. So, can’t you merely lament that our society is so crappy that women (or anyone, really) fears for their safety when walking down certain streets, rather than taking it personally? I assure you, it should NEVER be taken personally. I can understand that it would hurt your feelings if a woman glares at you like you are a leper while she passes you on the street…but if she merely walks across the street to avoid any strangers - what harm is there in that? I can understand that it would hurt your feelings when a woman constantly checks to see where you are, and perhaps she could be more subtle about it - but what do you expect her to do? Just lollygag along the street, unaware of her surroundings? She is just trying to protect herself. She just doesn’t want to take the chance that the “nice looking young man” walking by her is in reality the next Ted Bundy. You never know. It _never_ hurts to be cautious when you are all alone in a “bad area”. Today I went into a nice art gallery. A lot of little (but rather expensive) items, many were quite fragile. The owner of the gallery kept close by as we wandered about. He was polite, he wasn’t tacky about it. He commented on the different items as we looked around. I figured that he _knew_ that I probably _wouldn’t_ break anything, or shoplift, but he just had to protect his products, and his store. I didn’t take it personally. I figured that he’d probably had trouble in the past with deadbeats. I didn’t think that he tastefully shadowed me because I had “loser” written all over me. But he _just didn’t want to take the chance_ that I was, in reality, a deadbeat. That’s the reality of the world today. I don’t intend to take it personally. I understand other people wanting to take precautions, and I don’t blame them. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/124 "2001-09-11T07:05:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman > > > > Actually it does hurt someone. It hurts me when I am walking down that same street at about the same time you are and I see you cross the street to avoid walking beside me or check my position and actions over your shoulder every few seconds. > > \* > > I appreciate that you understand why LaurAnge has the fears she does - but do you _really_ expect women to not take precautions (like “getting out of the path” of a stranger) because she _might_ hurt your feelings? The alternative is that she puts herself at a slightly higher risk of being mugged, or worse. We are taught to be cautious. Many of us took self-defense. Being aware of those around us is something we are coached to do. So forgive us, please. > \*\* And I understand and forgive those occurances almost as soon as they happen. There is this brief flash, and in my original post I called it “unreasoning” for a reason. I’ve never understood why, but it hurts when I see someone take pains to avoid me. Even though I can understand the need for caution, and I teach my children to avoid strangers, there is still always a little bit of a shock when you see that you’re not percieved as a big cuddly teddy bear that just anyone can instantly know and trust. Kind of like hearing your voice on the answering machine. Nobody likes that. I believe the original comments that started the whole “you’re calling all strange men rapists!” reactions were simply too broad and painted all men as potential rapists. Those of us who prefer to think of ourselves as lovable, cuddly teddy bears take offense at the mere suggestion that we belong to the same class of “strange men” who would do these unspeakable things to a woman. I think it was an overreaction to accuse AotL of stereotyping men, but I also think it was a little bit of a paranoid overreation on AotL’s part to make that statement the way she did. She can be forgiven because, just like a woman alone on the street at night, she was under emotional stress from her fears and should not have been expected to stop and think “Well, if I say this guy could be a rapist, I mean he is a stranger and all, could I be implying that all men that I don’t know are possibly rapists?” Just like a woman on the street isn’t expected to think “If I cross here so I’m on the other side of the street when that man and I pass each other, will his feelings be hurt?” Survival instincts under pressure sometimes preclude politically correct speech/actions. I’m not a big fan of polotical correctness, so I didn’t take offense at AotL’s statement, and I’ve always forgiven and understood when a woman crosses the street or continually checks over her shoulder when I’m on the street with her at night. At least once that first, ego-bruising impact has passed. Steven ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/125 "2001-09-11T07:24:16Z")
Thank you Mtgman. You put that all beautifully. (And welcome to the boards!) I am sorry I misunderstood parts of your original post at first. I also lament that you sweet “teddy bear” types get treated with caution and “paranoia”, and I understand why you feel the way you do. And I am glad that you understand the reasons (and the necessity) for our reactions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/126 "2001-09-11T13:17:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > That’s strange. I never saw the words “Ryan’s comment was wrong” let alone “wildly inaccurate” in John’s post. In fact, he said that he rather responding to **your** post; he never mentioned mine. I didn’t think I needed to- I stated that I was _emphasizing_ Fenris’ post, and given that Fenris’ post was rebutting yours, I assumed that people would make the logical inferrence that I was emphasizing the rebuttal of your post. Since you seem to have missed that, let me state it plainly- in your statement regarding the rules of the Pit, you were wrong. And you were wrong in such a dangerous way that I felt an immediate need to jump in and correct you by adding to Fenris’ information. I do _not_ want anyone to get the idea that you “can’t get banned” for things said in the Pit; you most certainly _can_. > [@](#): > > You said that it is possible to get banned for things said in the Pit, and that I was irresponsible, or ignorant, or something, for failing to mention that fact. John agreed with your first point, but I never saw him agreeing with your second. I do not judge your motives; therefore, I shall not judge whether it was irresponsible or ignorant. However, the _effects_ were dangerous- I would prefer not to allow people to try and weasel out of being banned for offenses by stating “but The Ryan said it was okay”. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/127 "2001-09-11T13:24:00Z")
Hey, **The Ryan**? If you’re going to be intellectually dishonest, at least do it someplace where people can’t go back and check what you ACTUALLY SAID, you freakin’ idiot. I’ve posted this a few times already, but heck, your post this is taken from is still available. Go back and read the words, you dip. I’ll make it easier on you by bolding the salient points. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > People objected to AotL **accusing this guy of being a rapist**. > > **Angel of the Lord** : > > > [@](#): > > > > **You’ve basically said that** , since I didn’t want to allow a strange man in my room because I thought that he could potentially be a rapist, **I have accused the man of being a rapist** , and have therefore crossed some sort of invisible taboo line. > > **Oh, really? Where have I said that? Perhaps you should actually read what people write instead of attacking them on the basis of what you think they said.** [/QUOTE] Why don’t you take your own advice and actually READ THE THREAD. Then show me where the OP accused the man of being a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/128 "2001-09-11T13:42:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > Explain what? Explain why you’ve deliberately deleted part of a quote in order to support your ridiculous accusation? No, I can’t explain that. Here you go, sport. Here’s the portion of the quote you were _actually denying_, which I oh-so-maliciously parsed earlier: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Angel of the Lord_ > since I didn’t want to allow a strange man in my room because I thought that he could potentially be a rapist, Yeah, I can see how this lets you off the hook. You were actually denying that she didn’t want to let a strange man into her room. How could I have missed that? :rolleyes: Look, why not just admit you made an accusation that you can’t back up. You accused **AotL** of saying the man was a rapist, when clearly she didn’t do that. Can you not just back down off that and apologize for it? Or is your pride such that you can’t stand to be wrong, even on a freakin’ message board? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/129 "2001-09-11T22:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > No one was accused. We REPEATED that to you, **over and over.** So if you countered my position, you must have known what it is, right? You said, and this is da **direct quote** (no Sauron-like manipulations) > [@](#): > > . I have been (from the beginning) talking about being cautious around strangers when in a vulnerable position. Yet now you claim that you have argued against my claim that AotL made an accusation. Which means that you **haven’t** been just talking about being cautious around strangers. You’ve also been talking about whether AotL made an accusation. So you argue against my position, and then when you get tired of that you pretend that you never heard what my position is. “What are you talking about? I’m confused. Who am I? How did I get here? Who are you people?” I don’t find your pretended amnesia amusing. > [@](#): > > AoTL specifically stated that she knew that he _probably wasn’t_ a rapist. Sheesh. Custard Dragon quoted it like a kajillion times to you - so I KNOW you couldn’t have missed it. And yet again we see the mentality that if something is repeated enough times, other people just **must** accept it. You just have this mindset that you are right, and are incapable of understanding why anyone would disagree with you. If custard dragon repeated “a kajillion times” that AotL’s retraction of her accusation makes the accusation alright, how could I possibly continue to disagree? > [@](#): > > Do you understand the difference between “not wanting to take a chance because this person is a stranger” and directly accusing a specific individual of FOR SURE being something bad like a rapist? I guess you don’t. Next. Considering that she **did** directly accuse someone of being something bad like a rapist, it is you that does not understand the distinction. [Several more instances of repeating the same argument in the apparent belief it will suddenly become true snipped] > [@](#): > > My apologies. I just could not fathom that you STILL were clinging to the delusion that there was some “accusation” that rape was “likely”, when it clearly never was. Somehow, I don’t think your apology is genuine. So you admit that you deliberately ignored what I had said when you said that you didn’t know what my position was? Is that how you deal with all positions you don’t agree? “Well, that position is clearly wrong, so you can’t possibly hold it. And would you mind telling me your position? I’m really annoyed how you refuse to tell me what it is”. > [@](#): > > Why isn’t it “wise”? Could it be…because the strange person could be a…(drum roll)… **RAPIST?!?!?!** My gosh - that’s what this WHOLE FRICKIN’ THING HAS BEEN ABOUT!!! (Sorry for shouting.) She didn’t think it was _wise_ to take a risk around a stranger, who _might_ be capable of anything - good or bad. No, that’s **not** what this is about. This is about her accusation of him being a rapist. Oh, that’s right. Since you refuse to admit that she did so, that’s not a valid subject, so it can’t be about that, so it must be about her not wanting him in her room. I forgot that you get to decide “what it’s about”. > [@](#): > > Why not? Why shouldn’t you feel “accused”? If a woman is “accusing” a man because she fears the _slight_ risk that he might be a rapist, why should she not be “accusing” him if she fears the _slight_ risk of HIV? I never said that this is what constitutes an accusation. Are you **that** enamored with your strawman? > [@](#): > > I mean, **that’s all AoTL was doing** , and yet you thought she was “accusing” this guy. No, that’s not all she was doing, as I have repeatedly pointed out. Also, I siad that I would answer every question in that post. I did, didn’t I? And did you show the slightest gratitude? Did you do me the favor of addressing **my** questions? No, you didn’t. Well, you must be a busy person with all that attacking strawmen and all. Did you find the time to address one, just one, of my questions? No, you didn’t. This is like talking to a wall. You aren’t making the slightest effort to hold an intelligent conversation. You aren’t listening to what I’m saying, you aren’t explaining what you’re saying, you’re just declaring the same thing over and over again and expect me to suddenly accept it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/130 "2001-09-11T22:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > However, the _effects_ were dangerous- I would prefer not to allow people to try and weasel out of being banned for offenses by stating “but The Ryan said it was okay”. \*\* :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/131 "2001-09-11T22:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > Why don’t you take your own advice and actually READ THE THREAD. Then show me where the OP accused the man of being a rapist. If **you** had read the thread, you would have seen that I already did. Do you enjoy looking like a fool? [quote] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Angel of the Lord_ > > since I didn’t want to allow a strange man in my room because I thought that he could potentially be a rapist, > > Yeah, I can see how this lets you off the hook. You were actually denying that she didn’t want to let a strange man into her room. How could I have missed that? :rolleyes: No, I was denying that her refusing to let a strange man into her room was what constituted her accusation (the “since” part, which you “conveniently” dropped), which is obvious if you look at the sentence **in its entirety**. First you look at the sentence without this phrase, then you look at **just this phrase** , and both times you say that I’m not making sense, so you conclude that I’m not making sense. Well, of course if you cut up sentences they don’t make sense. But if you would actually read sentences in their entirety, you would actually understand them. Do you have some sort of cognitive difficulty that prevents you from reading sentences beyond a certain length? > [@](#): > > Look, why not just admit you made an accusation that you can’t back up. You’re the one who keeps on selectively quoting my posts to make it seem like I’m being dishonest. Why don’t **you** admit that you’re wrong? > [@](#): > > Or is your pride such that you can’t stand to be wrong, even on a freakin’ message board? I’m wondering that myself. You have not presented anything that shows me to be wrong. I **have** shown you to be wrong. So are you going to apologize? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/132 "2001-09-12T01:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > > However, the _effects_ were dangerous- I would prefer not to allow people to try and weasel out of being banned for offenses by stating “but The Ryan said it was okay”. \*\* > > :rolleyes: \*\* Gracious as always in humiliating defeat. You _are_ a class act, **The Ryan**. Am I correct in assuming that that’s as close as a retraction as we’re going to get for this comment? > [@](#): > > _Originally spewed by The Ryan_ > \*\* John agreed with your first point, but I never saw him agreeing with your second. If he wishes to take me to task for not taking it upon myself to give a full explication of the intricacies of this board, I am sure that he is capable of doing so himself, and does not need you to put words in his mouth. \*\* Fenris ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/133 "2001-09-12T03:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > So if you countered my position, you must have known what it is, right? You said, and this is da **direct quote** (no Sauron-like manipulations) There were several different topics being discussed. One was the delusion that you conjured up about AoTL “accusing” the guy. I could not fathom where you dredged that one up - and I was also on the other track about “strangers”. I was trying to emphasize that a caution around strangers is not an “accusation”. Simular topics, but not identical. Forgive me if I lose track of this whole mess. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > . I have been (from the beginning) talking about being cautious around strangers when in a vulnerable position. > > Yet now you claim that you have argued against my claim that AotL made an accusation. Which means that you **haven’t** been just talking about being cautious around strangers. You’ve also been talking about whether AotL made an accusation. I’ve been talking about more than one thing - yes. So what? So I’ve been discussing several closely related issues on this one thread. And this is the _first time_ in SDMB history that it’s ever happened. What a shocker. > [@](#): > > So you argue against my position, and then when you get tired of that you pretend that you never heard what my position is. “What are you talking about? I’m confused. Who am I? How did I get here? Who are you people?” I don’t find your pretended amnesia amusing. It’s because it doesn’t make any sense. You claim something that NO ONE ELSE SEES, and you provide no compelling evidence. You just pull out these quotes that DON’T accuse anyone of being a rapist, and say “see? see?” Sorry, I don’t see. I have no clue. That’s why I have been confused. I can’t keep track of this delusion you are suffering from. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > AoTL specifically stated that she knew that he _probably wasn’t_ a rapist. Sheesh. Custard Dragon quoted it like a kajillion times to you - so I KNOW you couldn’t have missed it. > > And yet again we see the mentality that if something is repeated enough times, other people just **must** accept it. You just have this mindset that you are right, and are incapable of understanding why anyone would disagree with you. If custard dragon repeated “a kajillion times” that AotL’s retraction of her accusation makes the accusation alright, how could I possibly continue to disagree? See, we’re totally not on the same page. You NEVER provided any evidence of a direct accusation of this guy. And I also feel, just because _you_ insist that an accusation was made (and therefore you are “offended”) it doesn’t mean we believe it, or accept it. WE ALL SEE THE SAME THREAD. It’s all written here. And yet you seem to be the only one insisting that there was a direct accusation that this specific 28 year old was a rapist. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Do you understand the difference between “not wanting to take a chance because this person is a stranger” and directly accusing a specific individual of FOR SURE being something bad like a rapist? I guess you don’t. Next. > > Considering that she **did** directly accuse someone of being something bad like a rapist, it is you that does not understand the distinction. I never saw this direct accusation. Where is it, pray tell? Oh yeah, I know you quoted some statement that wasn’t (at least to me and apparently most everyone else) an accusation. And you believe it’s an accusation, but I just don’t see it. And I am supposed to treat it like it is anyway? Just because _you_ think it is? I doubt many other people see any direct accusation either. (Or if they do - where are they? I mean, I don’t mean to imply that they don’t exist. But it would be nice to hear from anyone else who sees a direct accusation, so we could get some more “compelling arguments” about this so-called direct acusation.) It’s simply that we totally don’t see the same thing. You are arguing that a direct, specific accusation exists, most of us disagree. I guess that’s not going t o change. I don’t see either of us budging. > [@](#): > > You aren’t listening to what I’m saying, you aren’t explaining what you’re saying, you’re just declaring the same thing over and over again and expect me to suddenly accept it. Man. Deja vu. Couldn’t have put it better myself. I feel that this is **exactly** what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/134 "2001-09-12T15:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > People objected to AotL accusing this guy of being a rapist. Okay, here’s ONE of the places where you state that people are objecting to AotL accusing this guy of being a rapist. As has been proven several times, she made no such accusation. Then, in that same response, you quote **Angel of the Lord** : > [@](#): > > You’ve basically said that, since I didn’t want to allow a strange man in my room because I thought that he could potentially be a rapist, I have accused the man of being a rapist, and have therefore crossed some sort of invisible taboo line. You follow that up with: > [@](#): > > Oh, really? Where have I said that? Perhaps you should actually read what people write instead of attacking them on the basis of what you think they said. So what exactly is it you’re denying in that last quote? I’m not parsing anything for space and time now. I’m showing you direct quotes. **AotL** is OBVIOUSLY drawing a distinction between “he could potentially be a rapist” and “I have accused the man of being a rapist.” The two are mutually exclusive statements. Are you saying that any woman who refuses to let an unknown man into her room is automatically accusing that man of being a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/135 "2001-09-15T02:18:00Z")
yosemitebabe: > [@](#): > > Man. Deja vu. Couldn’t have put it better myself. I feel that this is exactly what you are doing. Then why aren’t you putting forth one smigden of effort to communicate? Sauron: > [@](#): > > Are you saying that any woman who refuses to let an unknown man into her room is automatically accusing that man of being a rapist? This shows just how pointless it is to try to talk to you people. I have been saying for several pages that just because someone doesn’t allow someone into her room, she isn’t accusing him of being a rapist. When AotL said > [@](#): > > You’ve basically said that, since I didn’t want to allow a strange man in my room because I thought that he could potentially be a rapist, I have accused the man of being a rapist, and have therefore crossed some sort of invisible taboo line. , I denied ever saying that. **YOU EVEN QUOTED MY DENIAL!** And yet you **still** feel the need to ask me if I am saying that. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/136 "2001-09-15T04:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > yosemitebabe: > > > [@](#): > > > > Man. Deja vu. Couldn’t have put it better myself. I feel that this is exactly what you are doing. > > Then why aren’t you putting forth one smigden of effort to communicate? Why aren’t _you?_ :rolleyes: I remain totally and entirely unconvinced that any direct accusation was made that this specific guy was a rapist. You insist that the accusation was made. We are both looking that the same thread, but it seems you are in the definite minority when it comes to this “accusation” thing. I think at this point, you are the lone voice insisting that any accusation exists. The rest of us are completely befuddled, bewildered, and lost, having trouble keeping track of what your “beef” is, since it seems obvious (to us) that such an accusation never existed. I daresay that many of us feel that it is a dead and resolved issue, therefore it is hard for us grasp that you would still cling to it. Yet you appear to insist we see it, and acknowledge it. **We don’t.** I don’t see what else we have to discuss, unless you want to provide further compelling arguments and evidence that such an accusation was made? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/137 "2001-09-17T21:27:09Z")
If I ever field a world-class debate team, I want **The Ryan** on it. He’ll be wrong on his points, but by God he’ll keep pounding away with them. I’ll make this easy, **The Ryan**. You’ve said several times in this thread that AotL accused this man of being a rapist. Show me where she did that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/138 "2001-09-19T06:50:22Z")
Fenris, since you are either unable or unable to realize that absolute absurdity of John’s statement, let me spell it out for you: 1. While it is theoretically possible that someone might, after getting a warning from a moderator that their behavior is inappropiate, even for the Pit, to respond “Well, I understand that you, a moderator and therefore invested with the authority of the SDMB administration, has said that my behavior is inappropiate, I have interpreted statements by The Ryan, someone with no authority on this board, as saying that there are no restrictions on what I can say in the Pit, and so I do not accept what you say”, the probability of that is so ridiculously low that no one in their right mind would worry about that. 2. If someone does misinterpret my words and somehow thinks that their interpretation is more important than what the moderators say, that is not my fault. 3. If the moderators were forced to ban someone because they (the poster) insisted in taking the position mentioned in point one, I hardly think the moderators would think it a great loss. 4. If John were truly concerned about people misunderstanding what the Pit is, he would be more concerned by the official description, placed where everyone sees it, than my unofficial description, placed where few people will see it. The SDMB homepage says > [@](#): > > If you gotta flame, do it here. This is the place for all complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB. It specifically invites people to flame, recklessly failing to warn potential flamers that flaming, which I again mention the SDMB **specifically** tells people to do, may get them banned. Moreover, it says that this is the place for “all complaints”. It does **not** say “all complaints, except for ones that go too far”. Seeing as how the SDMB’s own description of the Pit is more misleading than mine, it follows that unless John is working to change the wording, his statements about me were merely a hypocritical slamming of an unpopular poster on behalf of a popular one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/139 "2001-09-19T07:04:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > I’ll make this easy, **The Ryan**. You’ve said several times in this thread that AotL accused this man of being a rapist. Show me where she did that. I have already posted the quote that I believe supports that position. If you wish to argue how it does not support that position, that is a valid debate tactic. Demanding over and over to see it is not. I do not plan on posting this quote again in this thread. I really do not like the idea of people feeling like they can just keep asking for it and asking for it. So I’ll tell you what. I’ll post it under one of two conditions: either you start a new thread, so I can devote a whole thread to explaining how stupid you are, or you promise that if I find a place where I have posted it before in this thread, you will apologize and stop being dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043/140 "2001-09-19T11:59:13Z")
Can I reparse the sentence “All strange men are potential rapists” please? I think that one of the things that **pld** is getting in a twist about is that “potential” is an adjective to be applied to the word “rapist”, so that then sentence means “Every man that you don’t know has it within them to become a rapist”. This is clearly not true. The sentence _should_ be “All strange men potentially are rapists”. Now we have a sentence that means “Every man that you don’t know might be a rapist”. This, to me, is undeniable. The probability that a strange man is a rapist is non-zero, therefore all strange men potentially are rapists. In light of this reparsing, **AOTL** ’s OP is entirely reasonable - even the quote **Ryan** seems to be worked up about, which is this: > [@](#): > > I don’t want this guy in our dorm room. You’ve never met him, and I don’t care who this asshole is, I don’t trust him. If you’re stupid enough to ignore my warnings, fine, get raped, if that’s what he intends to do. But don’t drag me into it. How fucking selfish is that. Yeah, I know, he probably isn’t a rapist, but, if he is, and you invite him in here, you’re inflicting him on another person. The critical line **Ryan** thinks of as an accusation should actually be considered like this: All strange men potentially are rapists… … therefore this guy might be a rapist… … therefore he might be intending to rape the roommate… … therefore she will “get raped, if that is what he is intending to do.” The fact that **AOTL** spells out at the end of the paragraph that “I know, he probably isn’t a rapist” reinforces the impression that this is a “might be” worry and not a “I think you are” accusation. There. **Yosemitebabe** , **Ryan** : do you both agree with this? This, in my opinion, is the page you should both be on. pan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overnight-guests-in-my-dorm-room/79043.md?page=8)