# Overseas adoptions rise -- for black American children **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091 "2013-09-17T20:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/1 "2013-09-17T20:33:34Z")
[It looks like more and more American black kids are being adopted by parents from other countries, especially the Netherlands](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/world/international-adoption-us-children-adopted-abroad/index.html). It sounds like a lot of this is fueled by birthmoms who are specifically choosing families from overseas because they feel that their kid will not have to face as much racism in these other countries: > [@](#): > > Susan wanted her son to grow up far away from the life she knew. She was a 30-year-old prostitute addicted to crack beginning a prison sentence when she learned she was pregnant. She did not know whether the child’s father was a man who raped her “for hours” or a drug dealer whom she “had done something with” one time, she said. But both men were African American, and she believed the child would face discrimination growing up in the United States. > > “There’s too much prejudice over here. The white people are going to hate him because he’s half black, and the majority of black people are going to hate on him because he’s half white,” said Susan, who is Caucasian. “And then he’ll have to do extra things to prove what kind of a Negro he is, and extra things to prove what kind of a honky he is and I don’t want that. I did not want that for my kid.” > Even her own daughter, then aged 11, said “she would never accept that n\*\*\*\*\* child.” > Susan is not alone, says Adam Pertman, Executive Director of the Donaldson Adoption Institute and author of “Adoption Nation.” Many birth mothers have a perception that their black or mixed-race children will not face the same race issues in the Netherlands as in the United States. > “In the United States, as much as Americans want to believe it’s not true, we are still a country where there is a least some degree of racial prejudice. The birth mothers’ perception of Holland, in particular, was that the same was not true in Holland. There’s that feeling that maybe we can escape those issues if (the child is) somewhere else.” I am aware that the Netherlands has had racial conflict just like all other countries have - but I can definitely see why a birthmom might think their black or biracial child would have an easier life there. It is also interesting that the American system is also relatively gay friendly compared to other countries that allow foreigners to adopt: > [@](#): > > Some of the parents at the June picnic were same-sex couples. With laws in some states allowing gay marriage and adoption, the United States is one of the few countries from which gays and lesbians can adopt, and many U.S.-born children sent to the Netherlands have been adopted by same-sex families, according to Anneke Vinke, a Dutch adoption expert at the University of Leiden. In the last five years, 17% of the U.S. children that Goldstein helped to place with foreign families were adopted by gay couples. > “Bluntly, the U.S. is probably the only country that will allow a gay couple to adopt a child,” Goldstein said, adding that some states allow couples, gay or straight, to adopt whether they’re married or not. > “So the gay families of the world, when they can’t adopt in their own countries or don’t want to necessarily, and want to adopt a baby, they’re going to turn to the U.S.” In America, there has been a lot of struggle over the issue of interracial adoption, with some people fighting against the idea of kids being raised by parents of another race. Personally, though, I consider it great news whenever a kid ends up in a decent home with non-abusive parents, regardless of each party’s skin color. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/2 "2013-09-17T21:04:03Z")
She’s wrong in her assessment of black people. While there are definitely those who hate on biracial peeps, it’s nowhere close to “majority”. And if a biracial baby were adopted by a black family (as my parents did with my own brother), then he’d likely have little of the baggage that comes with being biracial. He’d just be yet another light-skinned black person. If I were that mother, I’d be more worried about raising a child whose mother is a crack-addicted prostitute with a prison record than I would be about racial discrimination. That is a big impediment to overcome no matter what the kid looks like. I didn’t read the article, but I hope she’s got her life turned around. For her daughter’s sake, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/3 "2013-09-17T21:52:59Z")
Susan has no idea what she’s talking about, which is probably not unusual coming from crack-addicted prostitute felons. Also, those countries don’t have the same racial hangups that we do, but a black kid probably being raised in an almost entirely white environment, including their family, isn’t going to have any racial issues? My sister has a black/white friend (not even adopted, so his whole family wasn’t white) who was raised in Holland, actually, and he disagrees. I have no problem with qualified people in other countries adopting American kids, but not for these stupid reasons. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/4 "2013-09-17T22:03:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > She’s wrong in her assessment of black people. While there are definitely those who hate on biracial peeps, it’s nowhere close to “majority”. And if a biracial baby were adopted by a black family (as my parents did with my own brother), then he’d likely have little of the baggage that comes with being biracial. He’d just be yet another light-skinned black person. > > If I were that mother, I’d be more worried about raising a child whose mother is a crack-addicted prostitute with a prison record than I would be about racial discrimination. That is a big impediment to overcome no matter what the kid looks like. I didn’t read the article, but I hope she’s got her life turned around. For her daughter’s sake, at least. I am very liberal but I was more than a little offended at listening to a crack addict whine about how racist Americans are and how _we_ are the ones who would screw up her poor kid. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/5 "2013-09-17T22:05:31Z")
Why not? Sure, it seems odd to hear about American kids getting “adopted out” to a foreign country. But a loving home is a loving home, and truthfully the AA kids in the foster systems do get the short end of the stick here sometimes. They take longer on average to place, and sometimes spend too many of their formative years with instability. If this birthmom thought she saw a shortcut to putting her kid in a better-than-average situation, more power to her. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/6 "2013-09-17T22:26:40Z")
Let’s be glad she got her shit together enough to get the kid a home. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/7 "2013-09-17T23:17:15Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I am very liberal but I was more than a little offended at listening to a crack addict whine about how racist Americans are and how _we_ are the ones who would screw up her poor kid. > > :rolleyes: Her daughter is also quite racist for an 11-year-old. (Way to throw your own kid under the bus, lady!) You gotta wonder just how that happened. Now maybe someone who’d have sex with a black dude can’t be all that racist (smirk). But surely an 11-year-old that would call a baby a “nigger” didn’t come to that attitude all on her own. Mama or someone real close to Mama put that in her head. So I am also rolling my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/8 "2013-09-17T23:35:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Let’s be glad she got her shit together enough to get the kid a home. True, she probably feels like this is the one thing she can do for him. Because she’s an idiot, the reasoning behind her thoughtful decision actually makes no sense, but oh well, the outcome will still be fine most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/9 "2013-09-17T23:42:12Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Also, those countries don’t have the same racial hangups that we do, but a black kid probably being raised in an almost entirely white environment, including their family, isn’t going to have any racial issues? My sister has a black/white friend (not even adopted, so his whole family wasn’t white) who was raised in Holland, actually, and he disagrees. There are rather a lot of dark-skinned people in the Netherlands, whether from Surinam or elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/10 "2013-09-18T00:17:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are rather a lot of dark-skinned people in the Netherlands, whether from Surinam or elsewhere. Probably mostly first- or second-generation immigrants? I doubt a kid raised in the Netherlands in a Dutch family is going to identify with them all that much. Recent immigrants tend to form their own communities (not ALWAYS, and I don’t know about the Netherlands but I’m just guessing). A black kid adopted into a white mainstream Dutch family is probably going to be raised in a mostly white environment, don’t you think? Especially because the kid was born in the U.S., so white Dutch parents wouldn’t even have resources like a Surinamese community center like they would if they adopted a kid from Surinam. Anyway, like I said I don’t even have a problem with it because things aren’t going to be perfect anywhere. But it’s stupid to think you have to rule out American families because in crackhead land everyone here apparently hates biracial people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/11 "2013-09-18T00:18:50Z")
Er, no? There have been black people in Europe for a pretty long time. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/12 "2013-09-18T01:00:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Er, no? There have been black people in Europe for a pretty long time. I’m not talking about Europe in general, it’s a big place. Some countries in Europe are overwhelmingly white, with the nonwhites being mostly immigrants in insular communities. Some parts of the U.S. are like that too, but I wouldn’t raise a black kid in that environment either, especially not \*because \*of racial reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/13 "2013-09-18T04:16:10Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > It is also interesting that the American system is also relatively gay friendly compared to other countries that allow foreigners to adopt: It’s that way as to IVF and surrogacy as well. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/14 "2013-09-18T06:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “Bluntly, the U.S. is probably the only country that will allow a gay couple to adopt a child,” Goldstein said, adding that some states allow couples, gay or straight, to adopt whether they’re married or not. This is simply incorrect. Same-sex couples can adopt in Canada, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/15 "2013-09-18T06:57:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are rather a lot of dark-skinned people in the Netherlands, whether from Surinam or elsewhere. > [@Blackberry](#): > > Probably mostly first- or second-generation immigrants? Most Dutch speaking blacks in the Netherlands are assumed to be Surinams, and those are fully integrated third-generation immigrants from a Dutch speaking, Dutch cultured colony. So yes, integrated. There are a couple of groups of more recent black immigrants that have more integration problems, but theit numbers are small enough not to make a blip on most racist-leaning people. Currently, our Dutch racists are so hung up on Muslims and Arabs, that, for the time being, they totally forgot about being racist and hostile to blacks. (It helps that half our star soccer players are black). Quite often, they even say: " I’m not racist, I’ve got nothing against blacks. But those towel heads…" And there is a considerable part of the Dutch who think black children, especially mixed ones and especially pretty ones, are stunningly beautiful. If you look at kids models advertisements aimed at kids and parents (for toys, clothing, etc) a large percentage (larger then in the population in general) is black/mixed. Well integrated kids of mixed race are considered cool here. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/16 "2013-09-18T11:51:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This is simply incorrect. Same-sex couples can adopt in Canada, for instance. The quote doesn’t even really make sense- obviously Dutch law allows same sex couples to adopt, or how would they be placing kids with Dutch gay couples…? I’m pretty sure that in countries where same-sex couples aren’t allowed to adopt, they don’t just go “Oh, well that’s an American kid- that’s fine. Here, have a visa”. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/17 "2013-09-18T13:00:24Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > The quote doesn’t even really make sense- obviously Dutch law allows same sex couples to adopt, or how would they be placing kids with Dutch gay couples…? > > I’m pretty sure that in countries where same-sex couples aren’t allowed to adopt, they don’t just go “Oh, well that’s an American kid- that’s fine. Here, have a visa”. I took that quote to mean that the US is the only country that has a large number of children _available_ to adopt, that is open to foreign couples, and also allows gay to adopt those children. I’m not saying that’s factually true but that’s how I read it. I’m assuming that part of the reason these families are coming to the US is that there just isn’t a large number of infants/preschool-age kids available to adopt in their own country – I’m sure there are some but maybe wait times are so long that going to the US starts to become an attractive option. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/18 "2013-09-18T13:10:06Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Currently, our Dutch racists are so hung up on Muslims and Arabs, that, for the time being, they totally forgot about being racist and hostile to blacks. (It helps that half our star soccer players are black). Aside: as an Indian growing up in a lily-white part of the UK, it’s not a stretch to say that Ruud Gullit, John Barnes and Daley Thompson were basically the only people I saw who looked like me (other than family). Gullit helped me get through a few difficult years just by existing. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/19 "2013-09-18T13:47:45Z")
Yeah, the problem is that most adoptee-producing countries are also not open to letting gay couples adopt, and conversely most gay-friendly countries do not produce adoptees for stranger-adoptions. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091/20 "2013-09-18T17:21:00Z")
I read the linked CNN article and I think it paints an accurate picture. Due to our very low number of unwanted pregnancies, (more girls on birth control) we hardly have any Dutch babies up for adoption. And we do have as many couples looking to adopt as the US does. And for the Dutch, America is as “cool” as “Europe” is to US birth moms. And the Dutch speak English, know American culture and that lets them choose that country and makes them willing and able to let their kid share her/his birth culture. And I suppose many cultural values of Dutch culture are similar, to and appealing to, US birth moms. Apart from the not-very-religious part, maybe. Yes, I think it is a good match. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overseas-adoptions-rise-for-black-american-children/669091.md?page=2)