# Overwatch **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 3, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804 "2016-05-03T19:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/141 "2016-09-13T19:48:56Z")
I see, I didn’t think of it that way. I think once I actually start playing, a lot will become much more clear to me. I am very excited to get started as I need a new challenge. I got tired of Battlefield months ago. I hope this one doesn’t get that way too. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/142 "2016-09-13T21:20:45Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Genji is very fast-paced. The best players are constantly double-jumping around, climbing walls, and using his dash attack. The shurikens do a good amount of damage and are extremely accurate. Great for picking off slow targets at a distance, though Genji excels at overwhelming a target at close range. Stick and move. The Shurikens are not actually very accurate. They move slowly and the staggered nature makes landing all three in a volley _stupidly_ hard. No, where Genji really excels is elsewhere: diving squishies. Land a stray hit or two, then right click (the spread shuriken) at point blank range and use his dash attack, and you’ll typically get the kill (enabling you to dash again, thus safely getting you out). Genji wants to dive characters like Zenyatta and Mercy, take them out hard, and then get away again. He’s a lot like Tracer in this regards. Check out how Seagull plays Genji to get a good idea of how he’s played at high level, and keep in mind that the skill ceiling for this character is _insane_, and a bad Genji is about as much use as a third sniper on offense: not at all. Also: his ult is damn near the best solo ult in the game, even post-nerf. > [@](#): > > Tracer is also good for in-your-face, high speed gameplay. Shoot, blink, reload, blink, shoot, recall, shoot, blink. If you can get really good with Tracer, she’s insane. That said, again: gonzo skill ceiling, very, _very_ hard to play effectively. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, Mercy will bounce between characters trying to keep her whole team. Her abilities to fly to her teammates helps us stay mobile and go everywhere rather than to just lock on to one person. > > She’s fairly interesting to play - you need to know when to heal people (and who), where to go to be at the ready, when you can afford to switch from healing mode to damage boosting mode, who to use it on it, when the optimum time is to resurrect your teammates. She’s mechanically simple but has a decent amount of regular strategy decisions. She’s more involved than, say, the medic from TF2, who’s a lot closer to your description. The main trick with Mercy’s mobility is that she’s basically defenseless, but if she’s clinging to a person, it makes it pretty much impossible for someone else to burst them down in a 1v1. What you need to keep doing is swapping between your teammates in order to ensure that those little scramble situations are won, as SenorBeef says, _and just as importantly_ ensure that you are not in the line of fire. Mercy goes down _real_ easy, she has basically no weapons to defend herself, and her only defense is being able to get behind a different teammate every two seconds. This makes for a lot of really interesting gameplay, particularly if your team is smart and sort of spreads a few flankers out on defense. It is surprisingly hard to play Mercy effectively - there isn’t really a “dumb” healer. What they lose in outright mechanical skill, they more than make up for in decision-making. For example, as Lucio, you’re going to be the one making calls on plays, because you’re the guy who controls whether the team gets a mild health boost or a significant speed boost at any given time, and so it’s your job to coordinate those pushes. With Zenyatta, you get to basically direct focus fire for your team with his Orb of Discord. Ana is just straight-up hard to play, mechanically, being a sniper and whatnot. With Symmetra you have to worry about turret placements, and also you’re not a support, stop lying Blizzard. 😃 Also, having trouble breaking the first point on Eichenwald due to Reinhardt’s barrier shield? Here’s a strategy for you. Run Mei and Reinhardt on offense. Then use ice wall to isolate the Reinhardt in the archway (because everyone is going to be _behind_ him), charge him, kill him, drop the wall, and bob’s your uncle, you just take that point, because it’s now a 5v6 and they lost their main tank, and they are probably not coming back from that. 😃 This also works well on defense to essentially completely halt an enemy team’s push. Mei is just super good on the first point of Eichenwald, offense or defense. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/143 "2016-09-14T02:06:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Huh, ignorance fought. I wonder if that was changed at some point or if I’ve always been under the wrong impression. You might be thinking of ult charge. It used to be the case that damage dealt to ice wall and barriers would charge ults - this is no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/144 "2016-09-14T12:20:31Z")
Well after a long debate, and a couple loads of laundry washed and folded, I will be getting the game tomorrow. The way Genji is being described here, makes me all the more interesting. I like working with the higher skill characters and trying to master them. I felt the same way about his shurikens from the videos I watched. I really enjoy being an assassin type character regardless. I will try out Genji and Tracer based on what has been said. Last question: Who is the most fun to play? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/145 "2016-09-14T12:45:15Z")
By all means, try gengi, but I would recommend that you try all other characters too. Genji isn’t the most forgiving character to start on. You need mechanical skill in aiming, positioning, decision making, target priority, map awareness and goodt game sense to even begin being useful. There’s a lot of prejudice towards new gengis because of this, they’re generally rather uselsss. 😛 If you like assasjn types, try reaper. Tracer is also similar to genji but much easier to start with, and also has a pretty high skillcap while being still useful at lower skill levels. Edit: fun is also subjective, personally I love playing dva. I also love playing Mercy, Symmetra and Zarya, and surprisingly Reaper - I never though I’d enjoy playing an edge lord but I do ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/146 "2016-09-14T13:19:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The Shurikens are not actually very accurate. They move slowly and the staggered nature makes landing all three in a volley _stupidly_ hard. > > No, where Genji really excels is elsewhere: diving squishies. Land a stray hit or two, then right click (the spread shuriken) at point blank range and use his dash attack, and you’ll typically get the kill (enabling you to dash again, thus safely getting you out). Genji wants to dive characters like Zenyatta and Mercy, take them out hard, and then get away again. He’s a lot like Tracer in this regards. Check out how Seagull plays Genji to get a good idea of how he’s played at high level, and keep in mind that the skill ceiling for this character is _insane_, and a bad Genji is about as much use as a third sniper on offense: not at all. > > Also: his ult is damn near the best solo ult in the game, even post-nerf. > > … It’s hard to land the shurikens, but the primary fire is still quite accurate, IME. AFAICT, they simply fly in a straight line. It’s far from Genji’s best strategy, but you can use them to chip away at a stationary Bastion or something, then pop reflect if he starts shooting at you. I agree that no decent Genji would make that the cornerstone of their play style, but it can be useful in certain situations. > [@TheStake](#): > > Well after a long debate, and a couple loads of laundry washed and folded, I will be getting the game tomorrow. The way Genji is being described here, makes me all the more interesting. I like working with the higher skill characters and trying to master them. I felt the same way about his shurikens from the videos I watched. I really enjoy being an assassin type character regardless. I will try out Genji and Tracer based on what has been said. > > Last question: Who is the most fun to play? That’s a very subjective question. Every hero is fun in their own way. I recommend trying them all, and seeing which ones you like the most. Definitely try to find at least one of each class that you like, so you can fill gaps in your team. Team composition is very important, and the hero select screen will provide tips to help fill in the gaps. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/147 "2016-09-14T13:27:23Z")
I play a game called Vainglory. In that game it is 3 v 3 PVP. You need a lane, a jungle, and a roam. That game seems very similar to overwatch, just not as extreme. It seems on that game, and as well as this one, that people don’t seem to want to play support. Are there incentives to support or tank, opposed to just going offense. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/148 "2016-09-15T11:14:56Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > I play a game called Vainglory. In that game it is 3 v 3 PVP. You need a lane, a jungle, and a roam. That game seems very similar to overwatch, just not as extreme. It seems on that game, and as well as this one, that people don’t seem to want to play support. Are there incentives to support or tank, opposed to just going offense. Depends on the level of play. If you’re bad, and your teammates are bad, it’s often a really thankless, shitty job. Playing primary tank or support for a team that’s incoherent or made up entirely of DPS characters is frustrating. That said, the roles need to be filled. Teams that run at least three non-DPS classes do demonstrably better, and there’s a reason the best teams in the game always run 2 DPS, 2 Support, and 2 Tank (or, occasionally, 3 tank 3 support) - because being able to hide behind people with 500 health and get healed makes your pushes have a lot more sustain. That said, I have gotten quite a few POTGs as Reinhardt. His Ult is phenomenally satisfying and can be absolutely game-changing. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/149 "2016-09-15T12:32:31Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > I play a game called Vainglory. In that game it is 3 v 3 PVP. You need a lane, a jungle, and a roam. That game seems very similar to overwatch, just not as extreme. It seems on that game, and as well as this one, that people don’t seem to want to play support. Are there incentives to support or tank, opposed to just going offense. Well, at the very least you’re guaranteed a gold medal for healing if you go support, so that’s more XP for you. Also, you’re probably more likely to win the game with a proper full team unless your damage dealers are useless, so that’s more wins and more XP. Oh, and I think they made it so that supports get POTG a lot more often now, at least that was my impressions the past few games (not that it matters heh ) ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/150 "2016-09-15T12:41:53Z")
At low levels, Lucia wins games. People can’t aim, so Lucia has plenty of time to heal people up. Just stand around and press e on cooldown, win the game. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/151 "2016-09-15T13:26:23Z")
I get the game today! I am pretty hyped up about it. Having to wait till pay day has made me hungry for it. I am going to take all the advice and really get into it tonight after work. I’ll try all the characters, I am sure it will be fun. However, due to others comments I feel that Gengi should be somebody I play once I get the maps down. I don’t wanna be the dude who goes assassin DPS and can’t do shit. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/152 "2016-09-15T22:47:48Z")
Play Genji all you like - just don’t go into competitive until you’ve got a grasp on a spread of characters, since there are no duplicates over there (nor should there be). Every now and then somebody in chat will say, “Hey, let me play \_\_\_\_, I’m an \_\_\_\_\_ main.” after somebody different picks \_\_\_\_\_\_. Then they complain a lot when they don’t get to play the one character they’re good with, and then we inevitably lose. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/153 "2016-09-16T01:18:34Z")
I mean, if you’re having fun in QP sure, but my advice would be to learn the maps and team mechanics with someone simpler, and then when you play genji you don’t have all that stuff to ALSO learn at the same time. If you’re a big FPS person and have played MMORPGs, you’ll probably get the mechanical aspects of the game pretty quick, so just learn the maps and then expand your horizons. That’s how I see it anyway, but if you’re having fun diving into the deep end off the bat, go do that instead 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/154 "2016-09-16T18:21:56Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > I mean, if you’re having fun in QP sure, but my advice would be to learn the maps and team mechanics with someone simpler, and then when you play genji you don’t have all that stuff to ALSO learn at the same time. > > If you’re a big FPS person and have played MMORPGs, you’ll probably get the mechanical aspects of the game pretty quick, so just learn the maps and then expand your horizons. > > That’s how I see it anyway, but if you’re having fun diving into the deep end off the bat, go do that instead 🙂 I took your advice and started with other “simpler” characters first. I had a blast to tell you the truth. I have a lot of exp. with FPS and MMORPG’s so i caught on to the game mechanics fairly fast. I ended up tanking most of the night, because everyone wanted to be fucking Bastion. I ended up finding a party of folks that had mics. They taught me what they thought I needed to know and we played. At first I disliked Roadhog because of his appearance, but quickly changed my mind after using him. I think that it is amazing how different all the characters are and I have a lot to learn still, but having a blast. I never seem to be on a balanced team, so I am sort of forced to fill in spots. Then all through the game, people are changing their roles and I have to switch again to fill a different gap. I hope that goes away when I eventually make it into competitive. So no Genji yet. I have to learn the maps first! I am enjoying the game though! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/155 "2016-09-16T19:32:47Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > Then all through the game, people are changing their roles and I have to switch again to fill a different gap. I hope that goes away when I eventually make it into competitive. Class-based shooters are all about counters. Every character in OW is countered (and often HARD countered) by somebody else, so matches can become games of paperrockpaperscissorsscissorsrockrockpaperscissors. On top of that, some characters are better on certain maps than others. Generally, the characters who need to think about switching like that are the DPS guys. Reinhardt is always a good choice and anyone willing to play a healer is a saint, but if you’re playing McCree and the other team brings out a Bastion, you might want to switch to Genji or Pharah. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/156 "2016-09-16T20:03:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Class-based shooters are all about counters. Every character in OW is countered (and often HARD countered) by somebody else, so matches can become games of paperrockpaperscissorsscissorsrockrockpaperscissors. On top of that, some characters are better on certain maps than others. > > Generally, the characters who need to think about switching like that are the DPS guys. Reinhardt is always a good choice and anyone willing to play a healer is a saint, but if you’re playing McCree and the other team brings out a Bastion, you might want to switch to Genji or Pharah. I 100% agree. I am talking about our healer decides to be dps, so I switch to healer, then my tank switches to defense, so I switch to tank. Then the whole team goes defense and dps then I am sort of stuck tank or healer for the whole team. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/157 "2016-09-16T20:43:03Z")
Oh yeah, that crap is the worst. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/158 "2016-09-19T02:12:56Z")
What generally happens, I’ve found at mid-level competitive play, is that players tend to switch within a class, rather than out of a class entirely. For example, I usually play tank and sometimes support. If I start off as D.va, and find that a Genji is wrecking our team, I’ll switch to Winston. If they then switch to a Reaper and I’m not effective any more, I’ll switch back to D.va and play more conservative (boost between vertical spots to throw off reaper and counter harrass their back line) - they now have a Genji AND a Reaper, so they won’t have mid-long range DPS (or their tank or support will be weak), so we pick on those points instead. If I see a Pharah, however, and our team doesn’t have any hitscan DPS, I’ll call out Pharah and ask if any of our DPS can take care of her. I won’t switch to McCree or Soldier myself, because I’m not comfortable enough with them to actually play at my tank level in competitive. If no one switches, I’ll kind of “soft counter” her with D.va, but it’s not ideal. If however, we only have 1 support on the draft, I’ll volunteer to Mercy. It’s very much my secondary, but if no one else on the team even supports as a secondary, you take what you can get. In the rare cases where switching tanks wouldn’t help, I call out my switch expressly. There was a game on Eichenwald, where at the final turn on the defence (just after attack broke the door) I realised that my D.va just wasn’t doing anything and my team was getting rolled. We already had a Reinhardt, and none of the other tanks seemed appropriate at the moment. So I called out that I wasn’t doing anything as D.va, and was switching to Junkrat. Junkrat is pretty low mechanical skill, and as long as you know enough to stand on the high ground and spam the chokes and minejump to the high balcony, you’ll be fine. I had to warn my team, though, as now they have one fewer tank to hide behind. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/159 "2016-09-19T07:58:50Z")
@ **Tabby** - The correct tank to counter Pharah is Winston. No, really, Winston counters Pharah. Unless she’s being pocketed by mercy, she can’t get away from you fast enough, and you can do 200 damage in two jumps. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Class-based shooters are all about counters. Every character in OW is countered (and often HARD countered) by somebody else, so matches can become games of paperrockpaperscissorsscissorsrockrockpaperscissors. On top of that, some characters are better on certain maps than others. Now let’s add in that the enemy team has a Genji and a Widowmaker (two characters that Winston absolutely destroys, and among the best reasons to pick Winston)… But they’re also running a Roadhog. So now it’s not just “how do I counter them” but rather “how do I pick my engagements so that I run into the half the team I counter, and not the one guy who completely wrecks my shit?” ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804/160 "2016-09-19T09:18:27Z")
Winston, really? I’ll have to try that. I wouldn’t have guessed (and to be honest I still don’t see it) but I’ll give it a go. 😉 Actually now that I think about it, Roadhog is the actual “tank” counter to Pharah, but I don’t really count Roadhog as a tank, to be honest… that, and I suck at hooking, so I never play him. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/overwatch/753804.md?page=9)