# Owning a firearm for home defense **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604 "2009-02-12T22:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/41 "2009-02-13T18:01:16Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Yeah, and then if the guy decides to not comply you can sting him to death with plastic balls. Never, ever, ever, pull a fake gun. Is it any different than owning a _real_ gun with no ammunition, as the OP stated? Either option is going to rely on putting on a good show and convincing the “dangerous intruder” that you’re prepared to shoot him, no? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/42 "2009-02-13T18:26:14Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I have the impression from statistics I’ve heard over the years that the liklihood of you or somebody in your family getting shot is higher if you own a gun, … That’s true if your “family” is a gang. Their definitions of “family member or freind” include such, so it’s bogus. I agree with **Cluricaun** - Double-barreled coach shotgun. 12ga. _Not_ with 00 buck. With BB or #2 shot. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/43 "2009-02-13T18:46:02Z")
If you do decide to keep a gun for self-defense, make sure you think to use it if you need it. Some years ago, a local con artist forced her way past me to get into my apartment. She came in to ask for money, but the police thought she might have been looking for valuables to steal. My ex had a gun, I knew where it was and how to use it, but it never occurred to me to use it. Robin ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/44 "2009-02-13T18:54:30Z")
I’ve never once doubted my ability to shoot to kill. I know I couldn’t do it. But I’d cripple a motherfucker for life without hesitation. I have a twelve guage Ithaca and a .38 special, and I’m an excellent shot. Anyone who breaks into my house better have already said goodbye to ther kneecaps and/or a healthy portion of their colon. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/45 "2009-02-13T19:30:59Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’ve never once doubted my ability to shoot to kill. I know I couldn’t do it. > > But I’d cripple a motherfucker for life without hesitation. I have a twelve guage Ithaca and a .38 special, and I’m an excellent shot. Anyone who breaks into my house better have already said goodbye to ther kneecaps and/or a healthy portion of their colon. There is no such thing as “shoot to wound.” If you drop the hammer on another human being you are implicitly accepting that they may die as a result. A shot to the arm or leg (and especially the shoulder or lower abdomen, despite what you may have seen in films and on the televisor) can be fatal; even if the initial injury is not life threatening, infection ensuing therefrom may be. If you are not ethically convinced of your need to use deadly force in self protection, or morally capable of accepting that your actions may result in the death of another person, you have no business pointing a gun at someone, period. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/46 "2009-02-13T19:32:03Z")
So does the “don’t pull a fake gun” and “Don’t pull a gun unless you intend to shoot” type sentiments apply to using a shotgun loaded with less-lethal ammo, like bean bags? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/47 "2009-02-13T19:36:13Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > So does the “don’t pull a fake gun” and “Don’t pull a gun unless you intend to shoot” type sentiments apply to using a shotgun loaded with less-lethal ammo, like bean bags? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/48 "2009-02-13T20:03:33Z")
“Less-lethal” ammo is a joke. Either use the best commercially available ammunition for the firearm or stick to using a baseball bat. If you pull a gun, be prepared to kill. If you pull the trigger, destroy the target. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/49 "2009-02-13T20:21:50Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > So does the “don’t pull a fake gun” and “Don’t pull a gun unless you intend to shoot” type sentiments apply to using a shotgun loaded with less-lethal ammo, like bean bags? I’d consider keeping a few around, and even- _maybe_- keeping one barrel loaded with same. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/50 "2009-02-13T20:27:24Z")
Unless a burglar knows you have some pretty neat stuff and wants it really bad, I don’t think he will break into your house knowing you are home, My guess is he doesn’t really want a shoot out with you. Your dog would probably work fine to let him know the house is occupied, he has no way of knowing how fast you will come at him with uzi blazing, so should just leave. I would suggest strong doors, you can hide behind while dialing 911, even if you do have a gun. Put up good security lights and an alarm system. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/51 "2009-02-13T20:33:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If you are not ethically convinced of your need to use deadly force in self protection, or morally capable of accepting that your actions may result in the death of another person, you have no business pointing a gun at someone, period. > > Stranger I dont see anything wrong with using less than lethal force to try to stop someone IFF lethal force is justified in the circumstances. It MAY be stupid on your part, and it may kill them anyway, but if your willing to give your target a fighting chance thats up to you IMO and you’ll reap the consequences of that decision. Otherwise, your stuck in the position that people MUST arm themselves AND are morally REQUIRED to use lethal force when the time comes…and very few pro gun pro shoot em folks seem to hold that position. ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/52 "2009-02-13T20:43:24Z")
A few considerations from a Canadian gun guy. Semi-automatic shotguns are much easier to fire from on top of cover, say like if you were behind your bed or a low-wall. They cannot be short-stroked under stress. They still have an action cocking handle if you like the sound. Owning a gun makes you an effective shooter to the same extent that owning a piano makes you a musician. You don’t just need practice, you need training. Under elevated stress levels such as when fearing for you life, your proficiency will be about half of your average performance at the range. Train accordingly. You will be unable to formulate new plans, but you can implement plans you have already made. Plan ahead, run scenarios in your minds. A gun should only be the last, innermost element of a home defence strategy consisting of many layers, or perimeters, all consisting of much more boring but just as expensive stuff. Some elements off the top of my head: -motion activated outdoor lights -video intercom at your front door (($200 Home Depot, uses your existing doorbell wires) -reinforced frames & bolts on all your exterior doors. -security film or bars on ground floor windows. -alarm system. -safe-room with exterior-grade or solid core door with a big, wide angle peep hole, and pins that extend into the frame on the hinge side. -spare cell phone in safe room with charger All these elements don’t just protect you from a home invasion, they also buy you time to get ready, time to let the cops show up, and minimize your chances of having to shoot someone. If your kids are old enough, every spring & fall when you change the time, practise fire drills (primary & seconday exit, meet-up point outside the house) and practise " lockdown" drills. During a lockdown drill everyone will practice getting to the safe room from where they are. Practise from your bedrooms for a night emergency, and from where you are at about 4:00 pm when everyone is back from school. Make sure someone has the job of talking to 911 Also, everything \*\*Jaglavak \*\*said. Gotta run. Good luck in your planning. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/53 "2009-02-13T20:49:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Since you don’t offer a specific cite it is impossible to provide an authoritative refutation, but such statistics invariably conflate legitimate and avoidable accidents, domestic disturbance shootings, intentional suicides, and legitimate uses of self-defense against a “family member or friend” who are threatening the lives of members of the household in order to exaggerate the total number in an attempt to make it appear that having a firearm in the household is a perilous exercise. … Shootings for all these reasons mean it is more dangerous to have a gun in the home. It is ridiculous to dismiss such possibilities. Avoidable accidents – are almost every one of them? If you are ignoring these causes of death and injury from firearms it is you who are skewing the numbers to make them appear safer. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/54 "2009-02-13T22:00:19Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Shootings for all these reasons mean it is more dangerous to have a gun in the home. It is ridiculous to dismiss such possibilities. Avoidable accidents – are almost every one of them? If you are ignoring these causes of death and injury from firearms it is you who are skewing the numbers to make them appear safer. Legal and necessary use of a firearm against a “friend” (i.e. someone known to the shooter) or “family member” (threatening drug-addled adult kid or violently abusive husband with a restraining order) is not the same thing as a negligent discharge or suicide. Yes, virtually all firearm-related “accidents” (or in technical parlance “negligent discharge”) are preventable by the use of safe gun handling methods. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/55 "2009-02-14T03:08:48Z")
\>If you’re going to have a weapon in your house, it only makes sense to have ammo in your house, too. Your wife is either foolish or ignorant on this matter. Hmm. You know, there is a third interpretation. If the wife thinks a gun without ammo amounts to the same thing as no gun, which is pretty reasonable, and she agrees the husband can keep the gun without ammo, and he goes for it, then she’s actually won, hasn’t she? I think the Taming of the Shrew went something like this, where the man gave in to the woman’s every wish and let her have her way in all matters, to make her think she’d won. It also made me think she’d won. This could be one of those debates that have nothing to do with logic. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/56 "2009-02-14T03:40:39Z")
I just went to the shooting range and shot a Kimber 45 as my first ever gun. It had an awful lot of kick in it. Is it considered one of the power “powerful” guns for a complete novice? To be honest, I would shoot at the target and BAM! fire and everything was so fast I had no idea really if I was close to hitting where I was aiming. So needless to say, a Kimber 45 definitely won’t be my first gun. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/57 "2009-02-14T04:22:01Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > Is it considered one of the power “powerful” guns for a complete novice? A .45 auto? Not really. Not the gun I’d start someone off with, but really rather middle of the pack as far as recoil goes. No semi-auto is going to peg out the recoil meter. For that you need to fire a single-shot or a revolver. A .455 Casull…now _that’s_ a wrist-breaker! Or maybe a [.50 cal Desert Eagle](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEUlh6rytI). Which, I know, contradicts that whole semi-auto thing I said a sentence ago. Shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/58 "2009-02-14T16:37:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Or maybe a [.50 cal Desert Eagle](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEUlh6rytI). Which, I know, contradicts that whole semi-auto thing I said a sentence ago. Shut up. Actually, the Desert Eagle is something of a peach to shoot compared to some other large autos, given the shear mass of the gun and the recoil system. The Glock 20 or S&W 1076, on the other hand, will beat you up like Evander Holyfield. The .45 ACP is not what I would pick to learn to shoot; it’s best to start with a .22LR pistol, both for the light recoil and inexpensiveness of ammunition, and work up from there. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/59 "2009-02-14T20:52:22Z")
I am always impressed with the intelligence and factual-ness of SDMB’ers, and hope that my suggestion is not rumor. I was talking with Larry at work, and he said that there were new bullets that function like a shotgun shell. If this is true, it makes a pistol a much better home protection option. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604/60 "2009-02-14T21:04:32Z")
Shot-shells have been around forever. As home defense they are less than useless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-a-firearm-for-home-defense/485604.md?page=4)