# Owning pets. Modern day slavery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709 "2013-01-10T02:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/201 "2013-01-12T01:37:13Z")
> [@pocho](#): > > that trait is natural? to serve man until his death? yes I called that enslaving…no matter how many excuses to keep doing it. 😃 And you do know that subservient pet you have? that was bred to behave as such. not a natural thing…sooon pets would order chinese takeout based on your vies. lol Dogs are pack-animals because they are descended from wolves, whose niche in the food chain is to hunt prey larger than themselves, like deer, so it takes a pack to bring one down. Therefore, for the sake of teamwork, and of harmony among the social group, they instinctively follow and obey the alpha-male, the pack-leader. Humans have simply used selective breeding to exaggerate that trait, with dogs recognizing their human masters as their pack-leaders. (Wolves also have instinctive birth control – a pack can only support one litter of cubs a year, since cubs eat but do not hunt, and their mother is temporarily incapacitated from hunting so long as she has to nurse them. Therefore, only the alpha male and the alpha female are allowed to mate – if any other two wolves try to mate, the pack will intervene and break it up; and all the wolves in the pack seem to regard the alpha-female’s progeny as their own, more or less. Go ahead and spay/neuter your dog – it does not mean the same thing to them as it would to you.) Cats hunt prey **smaller** than themselves, rodents and birds, so they don’t need help, so they don’t need packs, so they have no such obedience-instinct. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/202 "2013-01-12T02:09:53Z")
My poor Mouse-cat. Longing to be free… [http://tinyurl.com/cg4x856](http://tinyurl.com/cg4x856) This, btw, is the same cat: [http://tinyurl.com/akh4wbl](http://tinyurl.com/akh4wbl) He’s my barn-ish cat. His name is Mouse because I first saw him scuttling around my feed bins, I wasn’t sure if he was a rat or not. He was tiny. He lived for at least two weeks on dropped horse feed, and eventually decided that the lovely stinky cat food I was offering was pretty good. He now will leap off the barn roof onto my shoulders if I’m not paying attention, and will head butt me in the nose hard enough to knock my glasses awry and make my eyes water. He likes being out mostly, but when the weather’s too hot/cold/wet/windy he’s at the door clamoring to come in. Enslaved? Yeah. I am for sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/203 "2013-01-12T20:44:08Z")
Yep, just [miserable](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/lucianniegypsy1.jpg). Look at all the [torture](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/buffychair.jpg) I put them through. Now if you’ll excuse me, I must go and give [Maggie](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/maggiebox2.jpg) her bread and water. [sub]Dogs have owners, cats have staff[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/204 "2013-01-12T23:48:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yep, just [miserable](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/lucianniegypsy1.jpg). Look at all the [torture](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/buffychair.jpg) I put them through. > > Now if you’ll excuse me, I must go and give [Maggie](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/maggiebox2.jpg) her bread and water. > > [sub]Dogs have owners, cats have staff[/sub] SOMEBODY likes to crochet ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/205 "2013-01-12T23:51:16Z")
I think the OP has (wisely) fled the thread. Perhaps s/he will try posting in another thread, since it seems this is the only one they have posted to thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/206 "2013-01-13T01:48:49Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > SOMEBODY likes to crochet My mother. Yep, she’s so cruel she makes those blankets for the slaves. Seriously though, one aspect of slavery is that slaves are there to _work_. Pets are not. They’re pets. They’re just there for companionship. (Speaking of, PETA isn’t against pets, they just insist on them being called “animal companions”, or something like that) ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/207 "2013-01-13T02:56:42Z")
Chiming in here. we’ve had three cats - and all of them came to us and begged to be enslaved. And all of them have lived a life of luxury and pampering ever since. We have a doggie door, so they could, if they wished, leave at any time. Strangely enough, this has never happened. Cats know, not being dumbbells, where comfort and security and warmth lie. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/208 "2013-01-13T16:48:58Z")
Although it is not stated in so many words, there seems to be an absurd assumption uderlying the OP that living wild without any association with humans is somehow intrinsically better for any animal. I suppose the idea is that the wild state is “natural” and therefore better. The idea that natural=good is based on some naiive assumption that God or some mother godess of nature (for the tree huggers) supplies all her creatures with all that is good. In this childish scenario, evil mankind alone creates bad and evil things that are “chemicals” and “artificial”. There **are** feral domestic cats in most countries. Check out their lifestyle and their life exepectancy sometime. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/209 "2013-01-13T17:04:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not all that far left, except by American standards. And even in America there’s people well to the left of me, they just tend to be ignored. > > Symbiotic relationships. Even, yes, cattle; I suggest you consider just how successful domesticated cattle are in a Darwinian sense compared to their competitors. This. Many of the individual domesticated animals that are alive today would not exist if they were not domesticated. Humans as a species are killing off everything else we can, soon no large animals will exist in sizable numbers unless they are domesticated. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/210 "2013-01-13T19:33:36Z")
Owning pets is definitely a slave situation considering the pet owner is also the slave. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/211 "2013-01-13T21:57:05Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Owning pets is definitely a slave situation considering the pet owner is also the slave. Pet ownership reminds me of Ambrose Bierce’s description of marriage in The Devil’s Dictionary: > [@](#): > > Marriage, n: the state or condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress, and two slaves, making in all, two. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/212 "2013-01-14T00:00:17Z")
Regarding the enslavement of our latest incumbent, Andy, one of the things we force him to do as a slave is to test all new pillows that arrive at the house. Here is a photo of him performing this duty - you can see that he only does this because he has to. [http://imageshack.us/f/826/dsc00823s.jpg/](http://imageshack.us/f/826/dsc00823s.jpg/) ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/213 "2013-01-14T00:08:33Z")
You made a cat try a _clean_ pillow IN A BOX? Are you nuts?? You really are the worst sort of pet owner… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/214 "2013-01-14T00:23:17Z")
My slave (“The Lady Miss Pita”) is currently balled up on my left shoulder, purring in my ear\*. Both doors are wide open, yet she prefers to be oppressed with the occasional scritch. When I’ve completed the horror of being her mattress, I imagine we’ll play a refresing game of Fetch. Yes! My enslaved feline actually plays fetch with me. I can tell that she really, really hates it but also lives in abject fear that I will disapprove\*\* of her fetching skills. I can tell because of the way she jumps on me and starts licking my face\*\*\*. \*Plotting our imminent demise. \*\*She gives me quite the look of disappointment if I don’t throw her string kitten far enough. \*\*\*Apparently, I has a flavor. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/215 "2013-01-15T04:11:39Z")
I didn’t read the whole thread but it appears our departed OP was trying to get us to follow the PETA/HSUS way. How anyone could think that an animal like [this](http://www.charwinccrs.com/photos/kittybed.jpg) or [this](http://www.charwinccrs.com/photos/Kitty120209.jpg) is a slave! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/216 "2013-01-15T14:57:55Z")
Is it wrong that I now want to start calling our black dauchshund “Toby”? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/217 "2013-01-15T19:18:48Z")
[http://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Science/Coevolution03.pdf](http://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Science/Coevolution03.pdf) Dogs and humans have been together for 135,000 years. That’s enough time for co-evolution to have taken place. Our two species have evolved together to our mutual benefit. [http://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Science/Coevolution03.pdf](http://www4.uwsp.edu/psych/s/275/Science/Coevolution03.pdf) > [@](#): > > Instead of perpetuating our traditional attitude that our ”domesticated animals” are intentional creations of human ingenuity, we propose that initial contacts between wolves and humans were truly mutual, and that various subsequent changes in both wolves and humans must be considered as a process of co-evolution. The impact of wolves’ ethics on our own may well equal or even exceed that of our effect on wolves’ changes in their becoming dogs in terms of their general appearance or specific behavioral traits. Like many (most?) pet owners, I consider my pets as part of my family - or my pack. The relationship is two way. Yes I provide food, shelter, vet care, and recreation, but they provide true, uncritical companionship, amusement and are pretty good guards of me and my property. Just last summer, one of my dogs awoke us when a carbon monoxide detector began chirping in our basement. No human heard it, but the dog did and woke us up. Sure, it was just a worn down battery, but had it been a real emergency the dog’s alertness might have saved us. Strangers coming to the door get a ferocious barking. Think a crook wants to break into our house at night, given that challenge? They’d prefer the house with the alarm, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/218 "2013-01-15T19:27:09Z")
OP, define “slavery”. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/219 "2013-01-15T19:49:00Z")
Well I would say zoos that cut the wings off of birds and then nail their feet to tree branches counts as slavery. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/220 "2013-01-15T19:52:48Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Well I would say zoos that cut the wings off of birds and then nail their feet to tree branches counts as slavery. I did not ask for an example of slavery; I asked you (actually the OP) to define the word “slavery”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709.md?page=12)