# Owning pets. Modern day slavery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709 "2013-01-10T02:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/261 "2014-06-19T21:17:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > They have a lesser set of rights, due to a lesser degree of conciousness - essentially, the rights to be free from cruelty. Cruelty from humans, you mean. Not from other animals. _Who trusted God was love indeed And love Creation’s final law Tho’ Nature, red in tooth and claw With ravine, shriek’d against his creed_ ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/262 "2014-06-19T21:35:46Z")
Humans and dogs evolved _together_, in a symbiotic relationship. Are dog owners slaves because the canine figured out how to get a human to feed him instead of fending for himself? To a lesser degree, it’s the same with other domesticated animals, but I’m pretty sure dogs were first. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/263 "2014-06-19T22:39:36Z")
> [@chemical-man](#): > > I see what you are saying about the practical limitations of controlling breeding, there does not seem to be a simple solution (provided a solution is what the masses are looking for). As for imposing human values on animals, dogs specifically, what other values can we have as humans? aren’t we imposing our values when we train the animals to be a certain way? aren’t we imposing human values when we fix them? Dogs don’t have values. And we don’t do anything to them that we don’t do to ourselves. My dog had as many puppies as guide dogs thought appropriate and then got fixed. I had as many kids as we thought appropriate and got fixed. Many of us can control our reproduction. Dogs can’t. Look at it this way - dogs are permanently below the age of consent. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/264 "2014-06-19T22:47:05Z")
> [@chemical-man](#): > > LOL, my heart melts at pictures and videos of puppies and kittens. > > As for a suggestion, maybe it would have to be a long term attempt, so the effects might not be so abrupt, continuing the care for the ones that already exist would have to be essential, but preventing future breeding and perpetuation of the pet industry might reduce these large number and over time things would change…? Some dogs work. Hunting dogs, retrievers,. herders. Lots of my dogs children and grandchildren are out there helping blind people lead better lives. There are therapy dogs. There are guard dogs. There are bomb sniffing dogs. Do you want to throw this all away? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/265 "2014-06-20T01:53:50Z")
**@chemical-man:** Out of curiosity have you ever had a dog (or cat but in particular a dog)? I have had many dogs and while they were “my” dogs and not free to go live with someone else that is about where the “slavery” ended. It was a mutually beneficial relationship and one we both clearly enjoyed a lot. If you have never had a dog I strongly recommend looking in to getting one. _“Until one has loved an animal a part of one’s soul remains unawakened.”_ ~ Anatole France ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/266 "2014-06-20T03:04:56Z")
> [@chemical-man](#): > > I see what you are saying about the practical limitations of controlling breeding, there does not seem to be a simple solution (provided a solution is what the masses are looking for). As for imposing human values on animals, dogs specifically, what other values can we have as humans? aren’t we imposing our values when we train the animals to be a certain way? aren’t we imposing human values when we fix them? No. Animals are trained to perform a job or just to have manners so they aren’t an imposition on their owners and society as a whole. We spay/neuter so they won’t have unplanned/unneeded offspring. How are those human values? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/267 "2014-06-20T05:58:47Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > There’s no such word as “specie”. Actually there is, in the sense of gold bullion, but it’s obsolete. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/268 "2014-06-20T07:02:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Nutering females It’s physically impossible to neuter a female, I believe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/269 "2014-06-20T12:30:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It’s physically impossible to neuter a female, I believe. 😉 Not really - the vet removes the ovaries as well as the uterus in a spay, just as he or she removes the testicles in the case of male animals. Unless I have been whooshed, which wouldn’t be a first. Regards, Shodan the Son of a Small Animal Vet ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/270 "2014-06-20T12:52:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not really - the vet removes the ovaries as well as the uterus in a spay, just as he or she removes the testicles in the case of male animals. > > Unless I have been whooshed, which wouldn’t be a first. > > Regards, > Shodan the Son of a Small Animal Vet Neuter is for balls, spay is for ladyballs. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/271 "2014-06-20T13:19:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It’s physically impossible to neuter a female, I believe. 😉 > [@](#): > > Most people do not have the time or desire to breed from their cat and do not wish to add to the number of unwanted cats and kittens already looking for homes. Neutering a cat – castration in the male (removal of the testes), and spaying the female (removal of the ovaries and uterus) – not only prevents unwanted pregnancies occurring, but also curbs unwanted behavioural patterns associated with sexual maturity and reduces the risk of certain diseases. > > Reasons for neutering female cats > > •Population control. It is important to neuter a female cat before she can have kittens herself. This happens very quickly depending on breed, time of year born and individual development. The first season usually occurs around six months but can be earlier. Queens can have up to three litters in a year. [http://www.icatcare.org/advice/keeping-your-cat-healthy/neutering-your-cat](http://www.icatcare.org/advice/keeping-your-cat-healthy/neutering-your-cat) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/272 "2014-06-20T13:34:57Z")
I stand corrected! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/273 "2014-06-20T19:11:22Z")
**chemical-man** might like this bit from [Rick and Morty: Lawnmower Dog.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q-0sh2lNpUk#t=2258) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/274 "2014-06-21T06:00:29Z")
Huh, I did not know that. Learn something new everyday. ---
**Author:** ![YetAnotherGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@YetAnotherGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YetAnotherGirl)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/275 "2014-06-23T01:40:18Z")
Maybe it will after you see what Wal Mart does to pigs o-o EDIT: this was a reply to one of, um, I think artemis’s post 😛 ---
**Author:** ![orangeapples](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@orangeapples](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orangeapples)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/276 "2014-06-23T18:54:33Z")
> [@YetAnotherGirl](#): > > Maybe it will after you see what Wal Mart does to pigs o-o > EDIT: this was a reply to one of, um, I think artemis’s post 😛 I’m sorry, but your post remains confusing, and I’d rather not re-read the entire thread. What does Wal-Mart do to pigs exactly? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/277 "2014-06-24T18:19:55Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > If you think cats are slaves then you don’t know much about cats. Darn right. Just ask our cat, who’s outside right now on her lovely purr pads, when she’s not bird watching, yowling for treats, being fed and given water regularly, petted and fussed over, with a bed to sleep on at night indoors, and she gets us to let her in and out dozens of times a day. Who’s playing servant here? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/278 "2014-06-29T05:42:25Z")
What’s the old saying, dogs say, “They feed me, take care of me, love me – they must be gods!” Cats say, “They feed me, they take of me, they love me – I must be a god!” Seriously though, cats don’t have the same priorities we do. They want food, a warm place to sleep, to be free of predators, interesting little places to explore and, contrary to popular view, they do want affection. Mine are all little attention whores. They don’t give a shit about “freedom” or abstract concepts. They’re not people – they have no capacity to reason. That doesn’t mean we should abuse them – of course! But that doesn’t mean we should assume that they have the same capabilities as we do, or grant them the same rights and responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/279 "2014-06-29T13:09:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What’s the old saying, dogs say, “They feed me, take care of me, love me – they must be gods!” Cats say, “They feed me, they take of me, they love me – I must be a god!” > > Seriously though, cats don’t have the same priorities we do. They want food, a warm place to sleep, to be free of predators, interesting little places to explore and, contrary to popular view, they do want affection. Mine are all little attention whores. They don’t give a shit about “freedom” or abstract concepts. They’re not people – they have no capacity to reason. That doesn’t mean we should abuse them – of course! But that doesn’t mean we should assume that they have the same capabilities as we do, or grant them the same rights and responsibilities. Quoted for truth. I wish people would understand this! ---
**Author:** ![john0000006](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@john0000006](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john0000006)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709/280 "2015-12-15T14:44:57Z")
> [@pocho](#): > > Ok, don’t get me wrong. I love animals for what they are…animals. And not for what they represent but the lives they live and how they live those lives. Now I find it really odd that we humans as a specie would capture another specie, domesticate it, stick a collar on it, call it a pet and claim they love that animal. Does anyone find that twisted? Let’s take a look at the dog…“man’s best friend.” Here’s an animal that loves man more than itself? is that natural? We breed these animals so that we can fill some sort of void in our mundane lives. I’m fully aware that we are on top of the food chain but is being on top of the pyramid an excuse to enslave other’s below, no matter what specie? For this same reason, I despise zoos. If we want to teach children about animals, shouldn’t we make the effort to go to their natural habitat and observe? And please spare me the extinct argument because no one right now is missing the woolly mammoth or saber-tooth tiger. I never wanted to make a connection with human slavery and pets but I have to be honest, if we’re going to argue that it’s illegal or immoral to hold humans as slave, why do we allow it on other species. thoughts? Yes, in most cases animals are enslaved by their lives, and that includes us, human beings. But, less put it this way, you are walking down the street and a Grizzlie bear runs out from behind a fence and comes at you. At the same time a strange dog comes running in from nowhere, gets between you and the bear, and howls at it. What will you do? Do you ‘save’ yourself leaving the hero dog to its fate, like any good little slave would do? Or do you recognize animal superiorority, that the dog isn’t the slave here, and leap into the fray like a free man would do, joining your brother, or sister perhaps, in the enjoyment of pure combat? Naturally you’ll never know. Moose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/owning-pets-modern-day-slavery/646709.md?page=15)