# Oxford High school shooting in Michigan \[1-DEC-2021\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 1, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294 "2021-12-01T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/181 "2024-03-09T14:10:45Z")
“Ya know, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they’ll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.” -Tod, from _Parenthood_ Those parents sure are a piece of work. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/182 "2024-03-13T13:47:33Z")
prosecution has rested, defence has called first witness, and the judge believes the jury will get the case today. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/183 "2024-03-14T13:04:37Z")
jury has the case and there could be a verdict anytime now. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/184 "2024-03-14T23:30:24Z")
The jury came back with a verdict: guilty on four counts of involuntary manslaughter, just like his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/185 "2024-03-15T00:18:55Z")
Yeah! Thanks for the updates, you guys, especially @rocking_chair . ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/186 "2024-03-15T00:56:19Z")
The family that goes to prison together… ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/187 "2024-03-19T23:22:07Z")
What do Dopers think of sentencing the shooter to life without possibility of parole (LWOP) despite the fact that he was a minor (15 YO) when he committed the crime? And what do you think of accusations that the prosecutor’s decision to charge the parents with involuntary manslaughter was “political?” Some people say that it’s a travesty to have given the shooter LWOP because a person’s brain is not fully mature until around age 25 or so and that he should at least have the ability to receive rehabilitation and be released someday, even if not until he’s 50 or 70. And because the parents’ actions were so egregious that the shooter had no chance to grow up halfway normally or even be protected from his own violent urges by being given help before it could get to the point that it did. I get the argument, and I do think the shooter is a victim in some ways. I do think we Americans are too hungry for retribution but never mercy. But OTOH, what he did is very serious, and most teens don’t commit mass shootings, even teens who have abusive parents and/or other terrible life circumstances growing up. And the assertion that the prosecution of the parents was “political” also gets under my skin. Prosecuting the parents for buying their son a gun that they did not bother to secure and that he used in a school shooting is _political_? Expecting gun owners to be reasonably responsible with use and storage of their guns is political? What? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/188 "2024-03-20T14:27:39Z")
Moderating: Reminder that this is a breaking news thread, and if you want to argue the politics of the situation, please take it to another thread, or start a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/189 "2024-03-20T14:39:21Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Turned out, Crumbley was caught making threatening statements on a jailhouse telephone and in electronic messages, the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office confirmed to the Free Press late Thursday, noting “his access to a phone or electronic messaging is now limited to communication with his lawyer.” Authorities did not disclose the nature of the threats or toward whom they were made. It’s come the that those threats were against the prosecutor. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/19/us/james-crumbley-threat-prosecutor](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/19/us/james-crumbley-threat-prosecutor) " James Crumbley, the father of the teenager who fatally shot four students at a Michigan high school in 2021, allegedly threatened Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald in a jailhouse call with a family member, saying the prosecutor was going to hell soon, she better be scared and she was done, a source close to the prosecutor’s office and a source familiar with the matter told CNN. “He actually said that he hoped I was listening. He hoped I was listening when he threatened me physically,” McDonald told [CNN affiliate WXYZ](https://www.wxyz.com/news/oakland-county-prosecutor-said-james-crumbley-threats-didnt-deter-her-from-fighting-for-oxford-families). McDonald said one of most disturbing threats took place in January, the same month that the trial was set to begin. The prosecutor did not elaborate on that threat but did say at one point, he threatened her physically." ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/190 "2024-03-20T15:29:54Z")
He sounds nice. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/191 "2024-03-20T15:33:35Z")
Of course, I’ve heard/seen that (“he sounds nice”) a hundred times in a hundred contexts…but this time I just laughed and laughed. Not sure why. Maybe because I hear it in the voice\* of Alfred E. Neuman? \*My personal version of this voice, of course… ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/192 "2024-03-21T12:23:37Z")
So, taking stock of these two nitwits: Mom: “Learn how to not get caught LOL” and “I wouldn’t change anything we did.” Dad: “Hey, kid, feeling bad? Just suck it up” and “Hey, prosecutor, watch out!!” A nice, long prison sentence sounds like just what they are needing. Let’s hope they both get some desperately needed help while in there, as it appears they both sorely need it - I am assuming they both will eventually rejoin civilized society. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/193 "2024-04-05T14:03:48Z")
Dad reads as a touch angry. He’s channeling his inner Trump: > **[James Crumbley threatens Prosecutor Karen McDonald: 'You’re going down'](https://news.yahoo.com/james-crumbley-threatens-prosecutor-karen-011926600.html)** > > The prosecution released James Crumbley's threatening jail calls against Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald during a memo to the judge, recommending a 10-15 year sentence. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/194 "2024-04-05T15:26:24Z")
OK sure, he may be going for the “they’re coming down hard on me because I’ve trash talked them” appeal gambit. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/195 "2024-04-05T17:03:33Z")
That whole family needs to be removed from society. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/196 "2024-04-06T13:40:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > OK sure, he may be going for the “they’re coming down hard on me because I’ve trash talked them” appeal gambit. Maybe, but I’m pretty sure the way it’s actually going to go is “They’re coming down hard on you because you have provided ample evidence that not only do you lack remorse, you are a violent man who may be a danger to society if released.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/197 "2024-04-06T13:47:46Z")
I wonder if the father’s anger issues were inherited by the shooter? Or perhaps the father’s issues screwed up the kid enough that he acted out? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/198 "2024-04-06T15:44:29Z")
From what I’ve read it appears that both parents played a role in damaging their son. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/199 "2024-04-09T12:57:09Z")
> **[Facing likely prison sentences, Michigan school shooter's parents seek mercy...](https://apnews.com/article/james-crumbley-jennifer-crumbley-oxford-school-shooting-e5888f615c76c3b26153c34dc36d5436)** > > A groundbreaking case in Michigan is nearing a close as the parents of a Michigan school shooter face sentencing Tuesday in suburban Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294/200 "2024-04-09T16:42:25Z")
10-15 years for both parents. the judge said the guidelines were not enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-high-school-shooting-in-michigan-1-dec-2021/955294.md?page=11)