# Oxford Shooter's Parents Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493 "2021-12-04T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/327 "2021-12-07T17:34:00Z")
Since no one here is saying that, I am not sure where you are getting this idea. Some are saying the school bears _some_ responsibility. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’d say that the parents definitely hold a very large share of blame. > > Depending on information that has yet to come to light, the school might or might not also have some share of blame, but in any event, their share is definitely far lower than the parents’. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/328 "2021-12-07T17:40:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The school could remove him themselves. Could they? Thats certainly not my experience with the public school system. Without parent consent they have to go through a process that is much like firing a union member including multiple warnings and stepping up the consequences. This was the shooter’s first incident and no matter how audible his cries for help I bet it didn’t reach their written standard for suspension or expulsion. Particularly given the parents saying that he would be home alone if suspended the school probably thought he would kill himself if he was sent home and was reluctant to force that situation over the parents wishes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/329 "2021-12-07T17:43:10Z")
My Dad bought me a single shot .22 target rifle after I passed the safety courses. I think I was 17? It is not uncommon for hunting parents to buy their kids a shotgun so the kid can go hunting with them. I have never heard of parents buying their kid a handgun, but I suppose it does happen, although that is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/330 "2021-12-07T17:46:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Students have a privacy right in their personal belongings, such as backpacks, and school officials must have **“reasonable suspicion”** before searching a student’s items. (Emphasis mine.) If the note about “hearing voices, won’t stop, help me” isn’t reasonable suspicion, I don’t know what one is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/331 "2021-12-07T17:49:54Z")
There is no such side, unless you mean the Death Penalty advocates. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/332 "2021-12-07T17:53:17Z")
A Bomb. A bomb that would kill a whole classroom is easy to make and would fit into a backpack. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/333 "2021-12-07T17:54:03Z")
As someone pointed out upthread someplace, the Columbine killers proved that bomb-making isn’t that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/334 "2021-12-07T17:57:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A Bomb. A bomb that would kill a whole classroom is easy to make and would fit into a backpack. Then why are school bombings entirely unheard of in the US while school shootings happen every other week? It’s almost like you’re wrong, a bomb is not nearly as easy to make as grabbing your parents’ guns is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/335 "2021-12-07T18:02:01Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > 3,800 kids is way too many kids shot (and it was even more last year) This anti-gun cite shows 1800? > **[Gun Violence in America](https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-violence-in-america/)** > > Gun violence in America is at a crisis point. Every day, more than 110 people are killed from guns and more than 200 are shot and wounded. About searching the backpack- a handgun can be hidden under clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/336 "2021-12-07T18:02:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A Bomb. A bomb that would kill a whole classroom is easy to make and would fit into a backpack. So is this your version of the argument that we should not place _any_ restriction on guns because people who want to kill could do so just as easily by other means? If that’s the case, you should logically be fine with abolishing guns altogether. Because you can defend your home and hunt elk using all those other methods that can kill just as easily, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/337 "2021-12-07T18:10:23Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So is this your version of the argument that we should not place _any_ restriction on guns because people who want to kill could do so just as easily by other means? I have proposed many restrictions on guns, especially laws that prevent criminals from getting their hands on them. I have no idea where you get the idea I am in favor of no restrictions on guns. In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court identified many restrictions on guns within the 2nd Ad, I follow the rule of law. There are many good gun control laws which are on the books now, or could be passed, which would be Constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/338 "2021-12-07T18:11:56Z")
So what point _are_ you trying to make with your hypothetical student bomber? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/339 "2021-12-07T18:12:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have proposed many restrictions on guns, especially laws that prevent criminals from getting their hands on them. What would you say was your most feasible suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/340 "2021-12-07T18:15:04Z")
A question was asked- with what else could someone kill a lot of kids with that would fit into a backpack. The answer is a Bomb. Those are quite common outside the USA, and the Bath school bombing here in the USA still holds the record. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/341 "2021-12-07T18:17:26Z")
Ban “straw man dealers”, the primary source of guns for criminals. Wouldn’t even take a law, just a change to ATF regulations defining “dealers”. Red flag laws _that the ACLU approves of._ Most gun transfers between private parties requiring background checks. However, this is getting close to hijacking this thread into yet another gun control debate. So, no more OK? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/342 "2021-12-07T18:18:11Z")
All of them damn good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/343 "2021-12-07T18:28:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, this is getting close to hijacking this thread into yet another gun control debate. So, no more OK? Sure, instead of hijacking a thread about parents who gave a _gun_ to their kid who then proceeded to kill his fellow students with that _gun_ by talking about guns, let’s focus on the national crisis of teenagers bringing bombs to school in their backpacks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/344 "2021-12-07T18:31:27Z")
Which I am not doing-so why are you? Do you have issues with people answering questions raised in a thread or something? Isn’t that what we are supposed to do? If you don’t want to discuss bombs, then drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/345 "2021-12-07T18:33:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Do you have issues with people answering questions raised in a thread or something? For completeness, other possible answers to that question would have been “Plutonium” or “antimatter”. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/346 "2021-12-07T18:35:49Z")
For comparison, here are some of Kip Kinkel’s writings. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kinkel/kip/writings.html](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kinkel/kip/writings.html) This is the Thurston High School shooter who killed his parents (who bought him guns and whose gun safe code he apparently cracked) and killed and injured his classmates. He’s diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and was sentenced to 111 years with no parole option. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=18)