# Oxford Shooter's Parents Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493 "2021-12-04T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/25 "2021-12-04T16:03:55Z")
That they never checked his backpack must weigh heavily on staff. I know of an incident involving a first grader who brought steak knives to school and was discovered at recess digging in the dirt with the knives. Immediately shit hit the fan, and she faced expulsion. Was allowed to remain but was then banned from riding the bus, had to have a parent walk her into the school office where her backpack was checked then she was escorted by an aide to her classroom. This is in place for the rest of the school year. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/26 "2021-12-04T16:07:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe the strategy in a case like this is to try to divert attention from the parents to the school administrators. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > It sounds like school officials also bear a substantial proportion of blame for the shootings. Well that didn’t take long. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/27 "2021-12-04T16:12:24Z")
It’s not “strategy” and I’m not defending the parents. These days, it should require no more than common sense on the part of school officials to investigate volatile situations further and get those kids out of the school to avoid a violent incident. In past episodes, classmates have mentioned how the “troubled teen” was talking about blowing people away, but gee, they didn’t think he was _serious_. Wonder if that’ll be the case here too. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/28 "2021-12-04T16:16:31Z")
You’re the one that typed … > [@Jackmannii](#): > > It sounds like school officials also bear a substantial proportion of blame for the shootings. After his drawing came to light, no one bothered to search his possessions, and just let him back into class? That looks like a defense of the parents to me. Maybe it is the word “ **substantial** ” confusing people. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/29 "2021-12-04T16:19:27Z")
Only if you overlook the word “also”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/30 "2021-12-04T16:21:53Z")
Your post makes it appear you think the school is equally to blame. The “also” indicates a shared blame. What percentage of blame do think the school has vs. the parents? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/31 "2021-12-04T16:25:16Z")
Why are you so invested in defending the school people who dropped the ball here? Is there some intense ideological battle going on behind the scenes in which people score points for laying blame entirely on the clueless and/or criminal parents? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/32 "2021-12-04T16:27:06Z")
The school seems barely at fault here. I guess I would say 90% the asshole parents and maybe 10% of the school. This case is pretty clear cut. I’m amazed anyone would defend the parents by blaming the school just like **Czarcasm** said they would. It is shocking to me. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/33 "2021-12-04T16:32:26Z")
> [@chela](#): > > That they never checked his backpack must weigh heavily on staff. Given the situation, it seems they would have asked the child to open his back pack. Or, picked it up and handed it to him. A two handed lift would give a good clue as to contents. I prefer the military approach. At five one morning an AP threw open the barracks door and yelled: “open your lockers, fall out on the road and strip to your shorts - NOW”. Less subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/34 "2021-12-04T16:36:58Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Given the situation, it seems they would have asked the child to open his back pack. Really? Because he drew a picture? There is no indication they knew he owned a handgun, let alone that he might have brought it to school. > [@Crane](#): > > A two handed lift would give a good clue as to contents. This is laughable. I could hand you a child’s backpack and you would be able to tell me that the weight came from a gun and not a textbook or two? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/35 "2021-12-04T16:39:59Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Given the situation, it seems they would have asked the child to open his back pack. Or, picked it up and handed it to him. A two handed lift would give a good clue as to contents. Maybe. Hard to say. The **[gun](https://www.sigsauer.com/sp2022-nitron-carry-size.html)** in question weighs about 29 ounces. It comes in two models, including 10 and 15-round magazines, respectively. It’s chambered in 9mm. A 9mm cartridge, for argument’s sake, weighs about 0.423 ounces, so … add 4.23 or 6.34 ounces, so … 33 to 35 ounces, or … just over two pounds. If a book bag actually had a few books in it … the two pound firearm stashed somewhere within might not be noticeable _without_ actually examining the backpack’s contents directly. Y’know … maybe. Metric: Gun: 822g 9mm cartridge: 12g Mag capacity: 10/15 Ttl Cartridge Weight: 120/180g TTL WEIGHT: 942/1002g ETA: pretty much ninja’d 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/36 "2021-12-04T16:40:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > the weight came from a gun and not a textbook or two? Not 100% but better than 50/50. Yes, it’s likely that I could have confirmed my suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/37 "2021-12-04T16:41:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My understanding is that the school can’t search your bookbag without a warrant. Sure we can. That was settled by T.L.O v New Jersey. > **[{{meta.pageTitle}}](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1983/83-712)** > > {{meta.description}} A school just has to have a “reasonable suspicion,” as opposed to a cop having “probable cause.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/38 "2021-12-04T16:43:37Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > A school just has to have a “reasonable suspicion,” as opposed to a cop having “probable cause.” The question is, is just a drawing, without any prior knowledge of the existence of the firearm itself, enough grounds for reasonable suspicion to search bag and/or school locker? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/39 "2021-12-04T16:43:43Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > two pound firearm stashed somewhere within might not be noticeable I’d say a 2 pound firearm would have a high probability of detection. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/40 "2021-12-04T16:45:53Z")
It’s ridiculous that people would blame this on the school when it was so clearly the fault of the parents, but I guess as gun owners they can do no wrong. Hopefully they spend a long, LONG time in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/41 "2021-12-04T16:46:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > just a drawing, without any prior knowledge of the existence of the firearm itself We’re talking about life and death, and we have ample evidence that it was warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/42 "2021-12-04T16:47:49Z")
At this point in our society, I’d say yes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/43 "2021-12-04T16:47:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The question is, is just a drawing, without any prior knowledge of the existence of the firearm itself, enough grounds for reasonable suspicion to search bag and/or school locker? Yep. Plenty of cases out there that say that school officials have very wide-ranging abilities to search possessions of students in such instances. School lockers (such that still exist) have been held to be totally school property and that the students therefore have zero “expectation of privacy.” Backpacks are slightly different but not substantially. The only real privacy the kids have, legally, is against body searches conducted by Admin as opposed to by an SRO. ETA: There is no freaking way you could tell a bag has a pistol in it by hefting it. No freaking way. A loaded school backpack can weigh 30 lbs., with all the books and crap the kids carry. A 2 lb. 9mm wouldn’t register at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/44 "2021-12-04T16:48:43Z")
From a NYTimes article [Weighing School Backpacks - The New York Times](https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/weighing-school-backpacks/) “In its latest rating of the most durable school backpacks, Consumer Reports has conducted its own survey to determine how much weight kids are carrying as a result of overloaded packs. The researchers visited three New York City schools and weighed more than 50 children’s backpacks. They found that kids in the 2nd and 4th grades are carrying about 5 pounds worth of homework and books. But once kids reach the 6th grade, the homework load gets heavier. On average, 6th graders in the study were carrying backpacks weighting 18.4 pounds, although some backpacks weighed as much as 30 pounds.” You are not going to be able to tell that 2 pounds of an average kid’s backpack is a gun, as opposed to textbooks, homework, lunch etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=3)