# Oxford Shooter's Parents Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493 "2021-12-04T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/447 "2021-12-09T15:14:06Z")
But a lack of any evidence whatsoever after years of baseless claims might be a reason to drop the claims…unless such claims are only meant to be a diversion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/448 "2021-12-09T15:19:25Z")
The military uses first person shooter games to desensitize combat personnel. However, this doesn’t mean that FPS games plant the seed to kill in the mind of any player (whether activated by the queen of hearts or not). Rather, an aspiring active shooter may use FPS games as a fantasy exciter to gin himself up for the actual act. Rapist use porn differently this way too. And In one of my dad’s most cherished ah-ha moments, news footage of Arthur Bremen’s shabby apartment after he shot George Wallace showed stacks of MAD Magazine, which I enjoyed but never took up political assassination as an avocation ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/449 "2021-12-09T15:21:05Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The military uses first person shooter games to desensitize combat personnel. Is this part of boot camp? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/450 "2021-12-09T15:25:42Z")
The main reason they use FPSs is that it is cheaper. You can conduct massive exercises without fuel, transport, ammunition, etc. You can run scenarios and such all much easier and repeatedly. There’s a certain upfront cost to get it all set up but once set up the ongoing costs are greatly reduced. Of course, the military through a great many activities, try and overcome the base reluctance for one person to kill another. Although really the main way is through a spirit of camaraderie. Soldiers are much more likely to kill for their buddy, so that sense of if you don’t shoot then you’re friend, your comrade-in-arms is going to die is emphasized. (FYI, I was the 2IC for one of the units running these battlespace environments when in the Canadian Armed Forces) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/451 "2021-12-09T15:25:42Z")
[Not basic training, but infantry AIT since the 90’’s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing) I remember the SEALS were doing it on “Money for Nothing” level video when I was a navy journalist in the 80’s ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/452 "2021-12-09T15:30:21Z")
I did not propose a general theory of the association of video games with school shootings. I proposed that what little evidence we have points to video games playing a major role in this case. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/453 "2021-12-09T15:30:46Z")
You should gather your evidence and publish a paper. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/454 "2021-12-09T15:32:50Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > I did not propose a general theory of the association of video games with school shootings. I proposed that what little evidence we have points to video games playing a major role in this case. You mean; he played video games. Later he killed people. Clearly one caused the other. That sort of evidence? Meanwhile many millions of other people play video games. Do not kill people. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/455 "2021-12-09T15:34:14Z")
To paraphrase Lionel Hutz, attorney-at-law, “Anecdotal evidence is a kind of evidence.” Also… a highly relevant comic. [Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Exp](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/exp) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/456 "2021-12-09T15:35:33Z")
I am not seeing anything in that link about the military using video games. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/457 "2021-12-09T15:37:52Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > I proposed that what little evidence we have points to video games playing a major role in this case. And I propose that you actually show us this evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/458 "2021-12-09T15:37:57Z")
The media beat me to it. The kid is reported to have been actively engaged in video gaming to the point of wanting to create scenarios himself. He did sketches of gun and gore scenarios. He wrote that he was compelled to act. He killed people. Perhaps worthy of consideration or maybe it’s nothing to see here, just move along. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/459 "2021-12-09T15:38:38Z")
They don’t tend to be video games as we think of them. In fact, they really hate it when they’re called video games. They’re usually called military simulators. > **[Military simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_simulation)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Military simulations, also known informally as war games, are simulations in which theories of warfare can be tested and refined without the need for actual hostilities. Military simulations are seen as a useful way to develop tactical, strategical and doctrinal solutions, but critics argue that the conclusions drawn from such models are inherently flawed, due to the approximate nature of the models used. Many professional analysts object to the t... ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/460 "2021-12-09T15:40:33Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > They’re usually called military simulators Exactly - blood and gore video games are simulations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/461 "2021-12-09T15:41:05Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The kid is reported to have been actively engaged in video gaming to the point of wanting to create scenarios himself It has only been reported that the kid made that claim. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/462 "2021-12-09T15:41:43Z")
Or maybe a person with delusions of violence was drawn to a medium that allowed him to express that violence. This has been found repeatedly in actual studies. See the link above. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/463 "2021-12-09T15:43:06Z")
In that book the author describes its use. Now that I’m tripping down memory lane to my days running an armed forces tv station, besides the SEAL story on video game training, I recall a story we played about the French Foreign Legion. Here’s an outfit he recruits the hooligan street-sweepings of the world, but the chef-caporal in the piece tells of how they have a major effort overcoming a human being’s natural reluctance to kill other humans (the point of the 1996 book I cited). TLDR: we aren’t killers most of us, and video games and movies and comics don’t make us killers. But the few killers among us really do like those video games, movies and comics. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/464 "2021-12-09T15:43:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > played video games. Later he killed people You asked for the source of learning about blood and gore. One source is video gaming. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/465 "2021-12-09T15:44:59Z")
I swear to ghod, if someone stood over a dead body with smoking gun in hand, and the only other object in the room was an Etch-A-Sketch, a not insignificant number of yahoos would blame the Etch-A-Sketch for causing the death. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/466 "2021-12-09T15:45:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It has only been reported that the kid made that claim. And so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=24)