# Oxford Shooter's Parents Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493 "2021-12-04T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/467 "2021-12-09T15:46:02Z")
This is exactly right. Violent people are drawn to violent media (non-violent people can also be drawn to violent media for different reasons). Violent media does not really cause a non-violent person to become violent. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/468 "2021-12-09T15:48:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > number of yahoos would blame the Etch-A-Sketch for causing the death. An astute observation! As you have pointed out, the kid says it’s video games, but we must look elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/469 "2021-12-09T15:49:31Z")
Let’s suppose this hypothetical causal connection between violent video games and real world violence is real. Kids in the U.K. play violent video games too. But we don’t have a school massacre every week. I wonder why on earth that is? I’m just mystified. I mean, they don’t have easy access to guns, but _for sure_ that’s a red herring. Because the kids should be using bombs, knives, smallpox, sharpened pencils… ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/470 "2021-12-09T15:49:35Z")
Maybe in some sense. If somebody had an interest in learning about plumbing, then picked up a book on plumbing to learn about it. Is the book the source of learning? Sure in some sense, but the interest has to predate the learning. He was likely drawn to violent video games because he had an interest in violence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/471 "2021-12-09T15:51:26Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > As you have pointed out, the kid says it’s video games, but we must look elsewhere. The kid is desperately offering up an unevidenced alibi, and you are supporting it because it supports your narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/472 "2021-12-09T15:51:33Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > played video games. Later he killed people > > You asked for the source of learning about blood and gore. One source is video gaming. Am I wrong? Imagine a time before there were video games. Before television. Before the movies. And yet, in those unbelievably boring prehistoric times, people murdered people. How is that possible? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/473 "2021-12-09T15:52:29Z")
…and bananas. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/474 "2021-12-09T15:53:37Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Violent media does not really cause a non-violent person to become violent. OK, so the child’s innate tendency toward violence was informed and cultivated by video simulations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/475 "2021-12-09T15:53:47Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > As you have pointed out, the kid says it’s video games, but we must look elsewhere. That is not what I pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/476 "2021-12-09T15:54:57Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > OK, so the child’s innate tendency toward violence was informed and cultivated by video simulations And the evidence for that is…? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/478 "2021-12-09T15:57:14Z")
Yes - America’s easy access to firearms was another variable. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/479 "2021-12-09T15:58:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Imagine a time before there were video games. Before television. Before the movies. And yet, in those unbelievably boring prehistoric times, people murdered people. How is that possible? It’s like saying sex was nonexistent until Richard’s Realm hit the web in 1998. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/480 "2021-12-09T15:58:43Z")
Perhaps in some sense, but what really is helping to facilitate gun violence in America is guns and lack of gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/481 "2021-12-09T15:59:32Z")
Amen! ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/482 "2021-12-09T16:00:02Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > > > Violent media does not really cause a non-violent person to become violent. > > OK, so the child’s innate tendency toward violence was informed and cultivated by video simulations. But to some of us, this is an update of the [Twinkie Defense](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense) ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/483 "2021-12-09T16:03:10Z")
I think I understand what you’re saying more clearly now. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/484 "2021-12-09T16:06:05Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > [Twinkie Defense](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie_defense) Oh, I don’t see it as an excuse or a defense. It simply explains how such a crime occurs. There were lot’s of variables in play. If you watch porn and rape somebody, the porn is part of the cause, but not a defense. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/485 "2021-12-09T16:08:21Z")
No, I would be the cause, not the porn. Not the same porn that a million other guys also watched and then just safely jerked their gherkins. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/486 "2021-12-09T16:11:55Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I would be the cause Ultimately true. And, there were many variables that contributed to the crime. Those variables are worthy of consideration if we are to understand what happened. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/487 "2021-12-09T16:21:45Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The kid is reported to have been actively engaged in video gaming to the point of wanting to create scenarios himself. He did sketches of gun and gore scenarios. He wrote that he was compelled to act. He killed people. I was and am a huge fan of the original [Operation Flashpoint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flashpoint:_Cold_War_Crisis). So much so that I downloaded a terrain editor (not the editor that comes with the game, but one where you can actually create new terrain) and went so far as to reproduce the island of Saipan in 2:1 scale (I was prevented from a 1:1 reproduction by limitations on maximum map size). I now regularly conduct bombing missions on that map, as well as covert operations to assassinate members of opposing forces. Do you think I am preparing to invade Saipan? Do you think I am more likely to now that I have gone through the weeks-long endeavor of reproducing the island? Do you think if I play the map often enough, I’ll get the urge to do the real thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=25)