# Oxford Shooter's Parents Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 4, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493 "2021-12-04T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/146 "2021-12-05T15:28:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is very safe to assume the administration didn’t know the child had a gun. What they didn’t know could fill a body bag what they should have done out of extreme care and prudence would be to simply check the disturbed kids back pack for anything that might bring harm to him or others. Drugs, knives, guns, box cutter, etc etc ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/147 "2021-12-05T15:43:10Z")
Why bother having _any_ laws if said laws do not automatically and immediately stop crime? Right? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/148 "2021-12-05T15:46:01Z")
Question: Did he have his backpack with him when he went into the bathroom empty handed, then came out armed? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/149 "2021-12-05T15:47:03Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > They should make it illegal to kill someone in cold blood. That didn’t stop the killings, so obviously a useless law that should be repealed. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/150 "2021-12-05T16:47:10Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Perhaps holding the adults responsible in this case may persuade adults across the country to respect the law. I agree. But other laws also need to be rigorously enforced. I am tired of pols and libs yammering about passing more laws when the ones on the books aren’t being adequately enforced. Felons caught with firearms rarely get anywhere near the time they should. And they almost never get prosecuted federally. People who cannot possess a firearm yet still try to buy one only get turned away when they fail the Brady. Why aren’t they prosecuted? Straw buyers who knowingly supply guns to those who can’t legally have them almost never get hit with the full penalties. Those are but just 3 but they are three of the most important. Can we start actually enforcing laws before we go passing more? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/151 "2021-12-05T17:03:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’ve heard stories of kids suspended for making a “finger gun”. My 14-year-old was hauled into the office and all but cavity-searched because he jokingly typed “I stab you” in a chat (in the school’s forum 🙄) about who could solve a physics problem faster. I got called in to take him home. He was pretty shaken and learned a good lesson about appropriate online behavior. Entirely appropriate on the school’s part IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/152 "2021-12-05T17:26:52Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I am curious if the administration asked the parents if there was a gun in the house, and if so, what the response was. > > At my school, a counselor would have done a “violence risk asessment” for the student. It is basically a questionnaire. I know that seems really silly, but kids will often be pretty honest about things, shockingly so, if someone asks. > > If Ethan “passed” the violence risk assessment and his parents denied they had a gun at home, I don’t think the school would have had any legal ground to suspend him. This does not answer all of your questions but it answers some of them. Ethan was definitely on the school’s radar. > When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student’s parents “flatly refused,” leaving their son behind to “return to work.” And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained. [https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-sunday/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-sunday/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/153 "2021-12-05T17:35:54Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I agree. > > But other laws also need to be rigorously enforced. > I am tired of pols and libs yammering about passing more laws when the ones on the books aren’t being adequately enforced. > **[More states consider laws to punish parents if children fire unsecured guns](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/safe-storage-gun-laws-ethan-crumbley-parents/2021/12/03/3f938ea0-5394-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html)** > > Thirty states and D.C. have passed similar laws, but thus far a parent has never been charged under them in a school shooting. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/154 "2021-12-05T18:08:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student’s parents “flatly refused,” leaving their son behind to “return to work.” And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained. This is heartbreaking. They were probably worried he’d kill himself if left alone, and furious the parents didn’t care. We still don’t know if the parents lied about access to a firearm, or if the school asked. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/155 "2021-12-05T18:17:23Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > This is heartbreaking. They were probably worried he’d kill himself if left alone, and furious the parents didn’t care. I agree. Reading the article ISTM the school was very conscientious and doing their job properly. They were aware of this kid, they were assessing the issue, they got the parents involved, made well reasoned judgements and so on. Hopefully they will not get in trouble for this. They cannot operate like every kid is a mass murderer about to happen (although that may be where we are headed with our schools). The failure here was on these parents. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/156 "2021-12-05T18:22:24Z")
Unless the parents said "yes, we have guns at home, " which I doubt. If they knew he had access to a gun, they should have searched his bag. But if the parents were all “Us, guns? Oh no. We would never have a gun in the house”? At that point, this is a disturbed kid with fantasies, not a weapon about to explode. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/157 "2021-12-05T19:10:13Z")
We’ve had previous threads where gun owners have absolutely bristled at the prospect of even being asked about guns in the home by their pediatricians. Obviously this is a bit different given the warning signs but I can’t imagine anyone was eager to jump into that shark filled pool. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/158 "2021-12-05T19:45:39Z")
Is it just guns we should be concerned about? A disturbed kid nonetheless can harm himself or others with any number of illicit items he may have in his backpack. A simple search of his backpack to keep him safe should have occurred especially since they ordered him to a psyche evaluation. Risk assessment should include a search of backpack and locker don’t you think so? Boggles the mind that some think the administrators did all that was necessary in that moment. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/159 "2021-12-05T20:01:36Z")
Please do enumerate the possible items that can fit into a standard backpack that can allow the wielder to pick off half a dozen people from a hundred feet away. Go ahead, I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/160 "2021-12-05T20:07:23Z")
What’s wrong with looking in his backpack for anything that could inflict harm? Or reveal more evidence of his intentions? You don’t send a suicidal kid away without making sure he’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/161 "2021-12-05T20:08:06Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Please do enumerate the possible items that can fit into a standard backpack that can allow the wielder to pick off half a dozen people from a hundred feet away. Go ahead, I’ll wait. A couple of pipe bombs comes to mind. 💣 Some rat poison to pour on the salad bar or a hot lunch warming tray. Who knows what some sick bastard is going to do. It’s the item we don’t expect that will kills us best. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/162 "2021-12-05T20:09:14Z")
> [@chela](#): > > Is it just guns we should be concerned about? Is there a problem with concentrating on guns for now, or do we have to cover all the bases at once? Lowering the risk is not as good solving the problem entirely, but it is certainly better than _not_ lowering the risk at all, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/163 "2021-12-05T20:11:35Z")
So we can either give up, or we can spent the entire school day with kids standing in line waiting for their packs and persons to be thoroughly searched for anything that might cause harm? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/164 "2021-12-05T20:16:55Z")
Yes there’s a problem if you think that a highly disturbed kid with violent fantasies and documented cries for help that catch the attention of more than one educator is only a capable of harm if they have access to a gun. Can you think of no others scenarios where harm could have occurred to him or others absent a gun? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493/165 "2021-12-05T20:18:38Z")
There are protocols for this sort of thing. I don’t think any of them involve searching bags. Maybe they should. I suspect after this, they will. But from what I have heard, I am 90% sure my campus would have handled this the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oxford-shooters-parents-charged-with-involuntary-manslaughter/955493.md?page=9)