# Ozzy dialect question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2002, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260 "2002-08-04T04:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/41 "2002-08-08T23:28:57Z")
**astorian** , G.E? As in ‘good’ enuf? We used to say that as kids when we had to wash dishes. If my dad took a slightly dirty fork, etc. out of the drawer he’d say "There’s another GE. But he was from Nebraska. Kinda like Australia, huh? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/42 "2002-08-08T23:31:12Z")
Certainly I’ve never heard that expression, but I don’t suppose that doesn’t means no one in Australia has ever used the term. ---
**Author:** ![Falchoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/76d3ee/32.png) [@Falchoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchoon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/43 "2002-08-09T00:28:22Z")
Aussie slang (as opposed to Ozzy slang…) is derived from British Cockney slang. The majority of the first white settlers in Australia were convicted criminals, deported from England in the 1780s. [http://www.gsat.edu.au/~markw/firstfleet/FFVoyage.htm](http://www.gsat.edu.au/~markw/firstfleet/FFVoyage.htm) More Aussie Slang links [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=aussie+slang&btnG=Google+Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=aussie+slang&btnG=Google+Search) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/44 "2002-08-09T01:42:46Z")
Oh, _please_ Falchoon, do you have to go around perpetuating stereotypes in this way? Especially as an Australian yourself? It’s all very well getting this sort of nonsense from the Poms, but honestly… The percentage of Australia’s current population that has any connection to convicts is insignificant, and the mention of them in your post implies an importance in relation to slang that is totally at odds with the facts. The small number of convicts deported initially was low. Even during the convict era, convicts were outnumbered by free settlers. Subsequent immigration totally swamped the convicts, particularly during the gold rush and after the first and second world wars. Only 160,000 convicts ever came here. Over half a million immigrants arrived for the gold rush in 1850-60 alone. There have been over 5.9 million new arrivals since the 1940’s. You want cites, you got cites. Try [here](http://www.dfat.gov.au/aib2001/history.html) and [here](http://www.immi.gov.au/statistics/publications/federation/body2.pdf) and [here](http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/culturally_diverse.html). I’m not trying to suggest that the convicts had no effect on Australian culture or perhaps even slang, but the way they are glibly trotted out as the reason for everything is totally disproportionate and at odds with the reality of 21st century Australia. And as for your comment that Aussie slang derives from British Cockney slang, well that may have been true 100 years ago, but it is utter dingo’s kidneys now. Have a look at a list of current Aussie slang such as the one [linked by Aro above](http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html) and you will see at a glance that the percentage that derives from rhyming slang is zip, and indeed most of the slang uses words and concepts totally alien to anything even vaguely Irish or British (dingoes, lizards, barbeques, aboriginal words etc etc) ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/45 "2002-08-09T02:03:08Z")
::applauds Princhester:: I’m seeing a lot of Brisbane names here. Maybe we should do a dopefest some time soon? Kid and baby friendly dopefest? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/46 "2002-08-09T03:21:13Z")
**Princhester** enthused thusly; > [@](#): > > The small number of convicts deported initially was low. Now _that_ must be a bit of original Australian slang. 😉 I too applaud. Barbeque you stole from us Yanks, who stole it from the Mexicans. What’s a Pom? Are there a large number of many of them? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/47 "2002-08-09T03:43:38Z")
Now look Mangeorge, the small number _was_ low I tell you! I mean, are you trying to suggest, in all seriousness, that those poor men (small in numbers as they were) were high? I mean, rum gets you drunk, but not really high as such. And they certainly weren’t high in the sense of social class, as I understand it. Just what are you suggesting? I’ve half a pit to take to the BBQ, mind you. Speaking frankly. Oh, and Poms are Limeys, by the way. And there are far, far too many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/48 "2002-08-09T03:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*On the subject of Austeralian slang… I came across this question in a puzzle magazine recently, and while I managed to solve the puzzle as a whole, I never found the answer to this individual question: > > Is there an Australian slang term for a dish, plate or utensil that’s only slightly used, and is therefore put back in the cabinet or drawer without being washed? > > As a “hint,” the word or phrase is also the name of an American appliance manufacturer. \*\* The answer is “Sunbeam” which is actually an appliance manufacturer but the reference in Australia was more likely to be to the detergent which was a pretty common dishwashing detergent. I still hear this usage pretty often. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/49 "2002-08-09T04:17:42Z")
Just to add my two bob to Princhester’s rant above. Even of those convivts sent to Austalia, a large proportion were Irish. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/50 "2002-08-09T04:21:57Z")
Rant? _Rant?_ Harumph. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/51 "2002-08-09T04:36:38Z")
Sunbeam? Never heard of that one but Sunlight’s still around. Hey I used the phrase ‘took a scunner’ the other day and the person I was talking to had never heard that phrase. Is it a Kiwi phrase or had she just led a sheltered life? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/52 "2002-08-09T04:41:28Z")
Must admit I’ve never heard of “took a scunner” either. And I’m at a loss on the Sunbeam thing too, I must say. Both because I’ve never heard of the expression and because I’ve never heard of “Sunbeam” dishwashing detergent. Anything more to tell us on this one Motog? Maybe it predates Primaflora and I. ---
**Author:** ![messiah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3e96dc/32.png) [@messiah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/messiah)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/53 "2002-08-09T04:42:36Z")
On a similar vain, I’ve always wondered why Americans pronounce route as “rowt”, when IIRC the fifties song “route 66”, uses the British/Australian pronunciation? Has the pronunciation changed over the years or are both equally acceptable? **Princhester** , You’re being a little tough on **Falchoon** , he/she did state only that the “Majority of the **first** white settlers where criminals”, especially when your use of the term Pom is itself is a reminder of such criminals. And although there are many additional Australian rhyming slang terms the, basic concept of rhyming slang certainly traces back to the cockney version. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/54 "2002-08-09T04:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \* > \*\*Sunbeam? > > Never heard of that one but Sunlight’s still around. > > Hey I used the phrase ‘took a scunner’ the other day and the person I was talking to had never heard that phrase. Is it a Kiwi phrase or had she just led a sheltered life? \*\* Damn, you’re right. Sunbeam is certainly the word used in the phrase but Sunlight is the detergent brand. Got me wondering now why ‘Sunbeam’ was the word. Did Sunbeam make dishwashers or something or was it a pretty limp attempt at rhyming slang or was it just a reference to the light and bright nature of beams from the sun?. A conversation at washing up time in our house when I was a kid might have gone something like this: Mum “Did you wash the bread and butter plates?” Child “Nah, they’re sunbeams” It’s a usage I’ve heard independent of my family in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne. Never heard of a “scunner” before. What does it mean? BTW **Princhester** I’m only 34 so the phrase isn’t that old. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/55 "2002-08-09T04:56:02Z")
I’ve just had a look at the Macquarie Dictionary book of Slang backs me up on this one: sunbeam noun a plate, utensil, etc. which is not used at a meal, and does not need to be washed. Compare moonbeam. [http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/p/dictionary/slang-s.html](http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/p/dictionary/slang-s.html) Actually, the Mac Dictionary Book of Slang i probably one of the best resources for the OP ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/56 "2002-08-09T05:13:58Z")
**Messiah** I’m not sure why you think I was being unfair. I did not say that **Falchoon’s** statement was not literally correct. All I said was that this was of minimal relevance to the matter at hand. You are not, I hope, seriously suggesting that **Falchoon’s** statement was intended to be a complete _non sequitur_ with no relevance to what this thread is about, are you? Obviously, **Falchoon’s** implication was that the makeup of the First Fleet was relevant to the origins of Aussie slang. And that I disputed for the reasons stated. Further, your statement about the origin of rhyming slang I don’t doubt. What I do doubt is whether rhyming slang has any real relevance to modern Australian slang. Look at that list linked above and you will see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/57 "2002-08-09T05:51:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by messiah \* > \*\*especially when your use of the term Pom is itself is a reminder of such criminals. \*\* I don’t understand this one **messiah**. What are you referring to here? And if **Primaflora** would come back and explain what a “scunner” is, that would be nice ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/58 "2002-08-09T06:19:13Z")
I think **messiah** may be referring to the fact that some believe “Pom” to derive from the acronym (P)risoner (O)f (M)other England. According to that Macquarie site you linked to, though, the better explanation is that Pom derives from pomegranate, being rhyming slang for immigrant. Well, I never said that _no_ Aussie slang is rhyming slang. Just that most of it does not. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/59 "2002-08-09T06:20:43Z")
Err, **is** not. Damnit, can’t seem to get my grammar together today. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260/60 "2002-08-09T06:36:36Z")
I love the Macquarie dictionary site – I was too lazy to check whether anyone had linked to it or not earlier. “To take a scunner” simply means to take a strong dislike to someone or something. It’s in the Concise OED but not in the Australian Oxford English. My mum pinched her Macquarie back and I’m having probs searching the site ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ozzy-dialect-question/122260.md?page=4)