# P51 Mustang. Sexiest WWII Fighter Plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389 "2002-08-05T05:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/21 "2002-08-06T00:48:48Z")
FWIW, I ran into a guy up at MFD when I flew in one time. His hangar doors were open to expose a Spitfire Mk. IX _Trainer version_ (! :eek: ) and a P-51D. He said that for pure flying enjoyment, the Spit won hands down; but if he was fighing in WWII, he’d rather be in the Mustang. (IIRC, he had a yellow SNJ in there too.) ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/22 "2002-08-06T03:27:17Z")
**David Simmons** said: > [@](#): > > Someone else mentioned the ME-262, jet fighter which was far from “marginally operational.” Over 2000 were built and had it not been for Hitler’s insistence on using them mostly as ground attack planes on the Russian front, they would have been a serious problem for our air forces. I value your presence here, Dave, as you were there. I think you might’ve mixed my posts above. The ME-262 was definitely operational and active and, as you say, might’ve been a much bigger headache for the Eighth if Hitler hadn’t wanted it to be a jet-powered version of the Ju-87 Stuka. One of Adolph Hitler’s very few contributions to the world. Only one I can think of at the moment. The Gloster Meteor _did_ (I think) see some action in interception of the V-1s. While the P-80 actually made it to Europe before the cessation of hostilities, I don’t know of it making any operational sorties while the war continued. The P-47 “Jug” has been mentioned. Well, this is a thread about “sexy” airplanes, and while I don’t usually think of them that way, I’ll have to say that the Jug was more tough than sexy. While the P-51 had the _zaftig_ figure, the Jug just carried on with the job. I tend to think of it as the father of the (admittedly post-war) A-1 Skyraider. And all you P-38 boom fans ought to look again at the mistress of the night (late, though, I know she was), the P-61. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/23 "2002-08-06T04:22:50Z")
Bah. Amerocentric philistines! I give you the beautiful, the awesome, the powerful [Tempest.](http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/tempest.htm) These things shot down V-1s, fer God’s sake. Look at those lines. Beautiful! ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/24 "2002-08-06T04:43:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > [B > > And all you P-38 boom fans ought to look again at the mistress of the night (late, though, I know she was), the P-61. \*\* I don’t want to pick on **Ringo,** but my goodness, what some people think of as beautiful - well! For those of you who have never even heard of a P-61 [here she is.](http://www.paccd.cc.ca.us/75th/war/p-61/p-61.html) Good airplane and ahead of its time, but too late to be of much value in WWII. The British could sure have used it in 1940 though. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/25 "2002-08-06T04:59:36Z")
_Touche_ Dave. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/26 "2002-08-06T06:39:13Z")
I’ve always thought the P-38 Lightning was the most beautiful WWII era plane. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/27 "2002-08-06T06:41:23Z")
Another P-38 vote here. Gotta go see Glacier Girl soon, the one they dug out of the ice. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/28 "2002-08-06T13:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\* > > Ahem. A small protest about the Hurricane. This site about the [Hurricane](http://www.battleofbritain.net/section-4/page-14.html) has this to say: “In the hands of a skilled pilot, the Hurricane could achieve great success. In fact during the Battle of Britain between July and October 1940, 1.720 of them took part and had the **honour of claiming 80% of enemy aircraft** [bold added] shot down by Fighter Command.” > > Now raw statistics need interpretation and it is possible that Spitfires were sent in first to engage the ME-109’s leaving the bombers to the Hurricanes. But the numbers don’t show that the Hurricane was all that overrated. > > Further data about the [Spitfire-Hurricane comparison](http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/spitfire/survival.htm): “The Battle of Britain was fought between 10 July and 31 October 1940. At the beginning, Fighter Command had 27 squadrons of Hurricanes and 19 of Spitfires and it was the Hurricanes that bore the brunt of the fighting. Between the beginning of July and the end of October, 565 Hurricanes and 352 Spitfires were lost.” > > So Hurricanes had about 59% of the total planes and lost 62% of the total losses. Not at all out of line. > > Now as to the P-38. It was a 1937 design of an unusual configuration and had a lot of growing pains as [This P-38 Site](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap3.htm) says. For one thing, in the beginning its turn rate was terrible because it had been designed as a high altitude bomber intercepter and no high maneuverability was though to be required. Early WWII experience changed that view. > > An airplane turns by rolling on its side to that the lift is used to make the turn. The P-38, with its twin booms had a large polar moment of intertia which made for a slow roll rate and it took forever to get into a turn. So they made the ailerons bigger to try to increase the roll rate. But the control forces then were so big that the pilot wasn’t strong enough to take advantage of the large control surfaces. So they added hydraulic boost to the aileron control and the P-38 became a good airplane indeed. > > A comparison of bare specifications from this [P-51 Mustang](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap9.htm) site doesn’t show a lot of difference between the two. \*\* Nice post \*\*David Simmons \*\*. My humble thoughts. The histories of the battle of britain I have read have emphysized that the Hurricanes were not a good match for the 109’s, and tended to be sent after the 110’s and the bombers while the Spitfires tangled with the 109’s who arrived very low on fuel. The hurricane was a poor match against the 109’s and worst against the superior 190’s. Not a **bad** aircraft by any means, just an early model that time passed by, much like the P-38 and P-40 (and the Wildcats, as well). The P-38’s were not used much later in the war, when Corsairs and Hellcats became available in the Pacific (plus they could fly off of carriers). Also the P-47 and P-51’s in Europe were better as well. The P61 is a long time favorite of mine, but as a specialized night fighter it is a bit limited. Good call on the Tempest. Another neat plane was the IL-2 Sturmovik (sp?), the ground attack plane of the war. How about Bombers guys? B-17, B-29 or the Lancaster? For me, the rugged beauty of the B-17 does the trick. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/29 "2002-08-06T14:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\* > > How about Bombers guys? > > B-17, B-29 or the Lancaster? For me, the rugged beauty of the B-17 does the trick. \*\* One of the best features of the P-51 is the sound of its Merlin engine. When you put four of them on a Lancaster it’s music to almost anyones ears. But pretty? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/30 "2002-08-06T16:00:16Z")
I dunno, **David** ; I think Lancs are _very_ pretty aircraft. I think I kind of lean toward the B-17E, but it’s a tough call for me which I like better. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/31 "2002-08-06T16:33:57Z")
Bombers. I’ve always thought the B-26 was a good looking machine. That’s for our side; for the bad guys the Arado AR-234B was slick. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/32 "2002-08-06T16:51:50Z")
The Mosquito The only airplane I would have wanted to fly. If they could have produced of these labour- and wood-intensive planes they (the planes) could have won the war by theirselves. (BOY! that was poorly written!) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/33 "2002-08-06T16:58:47Z")
If you are looking at bombers then you may be surprised to consider that toward the close of the war it was determined that the most effieicient aircraft in terms of losses, hits on target and use of resources, such as crew and materials, coupled with bomb load was the Mosquito. Yup I know it cannot carry anythong like the load of a heavy bomber, but, a higher percentage of its bombs were likely to hit a smaller target, only 2 crew were at risk, it was far less likely to be lost, it was capable of doing this and yet taking on German fighter aircraft directly and coming out on top, which meant there was no need for long range fighter escorts. …and of course it sure looked better than any bomber. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/34 "2002-08-06T17:00:49Z")
I vote Lightning and Mosquito, along with the gent from **Tricor**. The German ME 262 (jet) and ME 163 (rocket) were outrageous planes, but basic and very ugly, ugly. No class. For a nice little Mosquito site, try [http://www.mossie.org/](http://www.mossie.org/) ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/35 "2002-08-06T23:45:37Z")
For me the Corsair with those gull wings was an incredibly beautiful plane. A couple were still being used in Viet Nam when I was there for ground support (I think of Marines). I once saw them come over at ground level with all machine guns firing (we had been pinned down by enemy fire). God it was breathtaking. It was as if Mars and Venus got together to create a beautiful thing for killing. That being said I also think that the Lightning was very beautiful too - almost science fiction attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Tixenfleaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Tixenfleaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tixenfleaz)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/36 "2002-08-07T01:10:06Z")
I’ll put in another vote for the FW 190. It’s like the Vin Diesel of the Luftwaffe. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/37 "2002-08-07T06:11:52Z")
My vote goes to what the Lutwaffe called “The Forked Tailed Devil”, the P-38. Sexy as hell and damn, wouldn’t it be nice to own one. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2002, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/38 "2002-08-07T10:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*…Most overrated- Hawker Hurricanes, P38 Lightenings, P40 Warhawks (the Flying Tigers did well with them early in the war, but the plane was overmatched in most situations. \*\* There’s something to what you say about planes that were overrated on account of their good performance early in the war, but what I found fascinating were the pilot’s summaries in _America’s Hundred-Thousand: U.S. Production Fighters of World War II_. This book is about 600 pages of highly technical information about plane design and performance, and includes extensive pilot interviews. Here are a few of the dozens of comments about the P-38: “The introduction of the P-38 into the Pacific really changed the air combat situation” “The P-38 just did not adapt to high altitude operations over Europe.” “Good fighter-bomber and fair for sweeps but poor for escort.” “The P-38 was a Pacific favorite. One happy pilot felt it was the best fighter of all even after trying the P-51.” The summaries that include all the planes are even more mixed. The ratings, from a conference in Patuxent in 1944 used several different measures, and no plane came out on top more than half the time. (“Best All-Around Cockpit”, “Best Engine Controls Arrangement”, “Best Ailerons at 350 MPH”, etc.) The planes were all constantly being improved, the overall feeling one gets is that there was hardly time to get to know everything a plane could do before it was changed, again. Sorry British and German aircraft fans, I don’t know of a comperable work for those aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2002, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/39 "2002-08-07T11:45:40Z")
The P-38 was favored in the Pacific because of the long distances over the ocean that pilots had to cover in that theatre of the war. If one engine failed, the second gave you a chance to reach land. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2002, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389/40 "2002-08-07T11:58:19Z")
However, the P-38, with 2 Allison V12’s on board was ALSO extremely fuel hungry. Even with drop tanks and over 1,000 gallons of avgas it’s range was barely 1200 miles. Conversely, a P-51 with drop tanks and just 800 gallons could cover over 2,000 miles - which proved to be a major determinant in it’s ability to escort bombers on raids into Germany from England. The sustained bombing of Germany’s industrial base slowly turned the tide regarding Germany’s ability to wage war. Also, my research shows that both the Spitfire Mk9 and the P-51D were both capable of higher sustained speeds due to their astonishingly aerodynamic shapes - quite an achievement considering the lack of CAD-CAM equipment the designers had in those days. That being said, apparently a P-38 (with it’s central nose mounted Hispano 20mm cannons) was obscenely lethal. Also, due to the P-38 having two engines - one of the main drawbacks with single engine fighters was overcome - namely, it only took just one small shrapnel hit to the coolant piping on single engine fighters for them to be rendered bail out jobs due to their engines seizing in a matter of minutes after losing radiator coolant. This was true for all planes on both sides too. It must have been heartbreaking if you were a pilot and you copped just a slight bullet wound to your fuselage - it didn’t need to be a major hit to ruin your engine and there were thousands of pilots who had to bail out on both sides because of this one little flaw in a liquid cooled airplane engine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/p51-mustang-sexiest-wwii-fighter-plane/122389.md?page=3)