# PA dopers, should state stores be abolished? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102 "2006-06-02T03:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/21 "2006-06-05T03:47:14Z")
BTW, is PA the only state with state stores? ---
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/22 "2006-06-05T04:23:02Z")
Heavens yes it should be abolished. They are an archaic relic and serve no real purpose. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/23 "2006-06-05T05:56:46Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] BTW, is PA the only state with state stores? [/QUOTE] According to [this link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state), the answer would be no. Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Utah, and Virginia all are mentioned as having a State Store system. ---
**Author:** ![tashabot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tashabot/32/6250_2.png) [@tashabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tashabot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/24 "2006-06-05T05:57:21Z")
As someone who grew up in Nevada, moved to PA and was totally confused by that system, and moved BACK to Nevada, I say yes, it should be abolished. I was so thoroughly confused when my friends in PA told me that convenience stores didn’t sell booze. I was like “…then how do they stay in business?” ~Tasha ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/25 "2006-06-05T11:02:31Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] According to [this link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state), the answer would be no. Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Utah, and Virginia all are mentioned as having a State Store system. [/QUOTE] If they do, many of them do not keep liquor sales as a monopoly. Maine definately has booze at the supermarket. The others? Not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/26 "2006-06-05T11:31:51Z")
Not being a drinker, or having failed to have doine much more than drive through a couple of the aforementioned states, I wasn’t even aware state stores existed until i read through this thread. Lurrrve the Dope! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/27 "2006-06-05T12:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Altoona McBoozeclerk [/QUOTE] Heh! It’s kind of neat to see my hometown in print… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/28 "2006-06-05T12:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] According to [this link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state), the answer would be no. Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Utah, and Virginia all are mentioned as having a State Store system. [/QUOTE] Missed a few; a better description is [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_states). New Hampshire’s may be state run, but they’re not terribly restrictive about it. Driving north on Interstate 93 from Massachusetts, there’s a liquor store at the first rest area after the state line. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/29 "2006-06-05T12:53:43Z")
> [@](#): > > **Guinastasia** said: > You can get a keg, but then, you have to have a tap. And we all know that the larger the quantity of alcohol you force people to buy at once, the less they’ll drink! You can get six packs (at bars and designated six pack shops), cases, thirty packs, party balls, mini kegs, quarter barrels, half barrels, and full barrels (at the beer store). You can also rent a tap at the beer store for your keg. A twelve pack does not exist in PA, although for some of the BBQs I have gone to, a twelve pack woulda been perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/30 "2006-06-05T13:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] OR. and WA. both have state stores and the prices are ridiculous. When I was on the road I would pick up my liquor, by the case, in CA. for just about half what it cost at home. I now buy it on a military installation and still save about 30%. [/QUOTE] Indeed. And ditto the next post, about the lack of selection. In CA I can walk into a Trader Joe’s and get a 750ml bottle of Jaegermeister with two glasses for about $15. In WA it would cost me almost $30 – without the glasses. (Not that I drink much; else I could have just gone over the border and picked up my sauce at the Duty Free shop.) I made steak au poivre using some Napoleon brandy I’d had lying about for ten years. When I ran out, I had to go to a liquor store to buy more. Okay, the state doesn’t know I’m cooking with it. But I was, and I didn’t like having to go to another store for it. My mom and her husband really liked Johnny Walker. They especially liked the Blue Label, but at $160/bottle they didn’t buy it. So I gave them some for Christmas a couple of times. Ignoring the fact that I would have not been able to send it to them in Arizona, I couldn’t even _buy_ it in Washington because the state-run stores can only stock spirits that are on their list. And JW Blue is not in great enough demand for it to be included. (They did have it at the Duty Free shop; but my mom and her husband died, so the point is moot.) ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/31 "2006-06-05T14:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] . . . Alabama, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon, Utah, and Virginia all are mentioned as having a State Store system. [/QUOTE] I’ll vouch for the crappiness of Montana’s State Stores. Granted, there was a casino just down the street from my apartment that I could run to for a quick bottle of whatever, but that was about it. The State stores in MT suck (at least the ones in Great Falls). They don’t take credit/debit cards, and they give you a hassle when you try to pay with a check. I much rather shop my local Class Six (military). Better booze, better prices, and they actually can special order what you want and have it to you within a week. Tripler Cheap booze: It’s one of the most-used military benefits. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/32 "2006-06-05T15:04:23Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] I drink almost never. I’ve never heard a good argument for why the system should stay the way it is. It’s bizzare, Byzantine, and doesn’t seem to create any benefit. The argument that booze in grocery stores leads to alcoholism and debauchery amuses me. I grew up in Virginia. It was the eastern love handle of the Bible Belt. All your alcohol needs could be met in Safeway, Giant, Shoprite etc. If there was an epidemic of drunken orgies, I missed it. [/QUOTE] Actually, in Virginia, liquor is still only available at state-run stores. It was that way when I lived in North Carolina also. Though at least, in both places, you could get beer/wine at any local grocery store. None of the baloney you have to deal with in PA (I grew up in PA, but was only vaguely aware of the rules about alcohol sales as I was too young to care back then). NC is funny with the whole “dry county” concept (do they still have that?). I lived in a county that had alcohol. The next county down the road was dry. THere was an ABC store just on the county line. FOlks used to drive up from the dry county, cross the border to the ABC store a few hundred yards up the road, buy booze, and consume in the parking lot :eek:. IIRC, there were a lot of brawls there on Friday nights. Yeah, prices are probably higher than they need to be for liquor (we once had an office party involving daiquiris, and a colleague who lived in DC brought the booze because it was so much cheaper there). Doesn’t bug me because we consume so little of the stuff, that 10 bucks every 2 years vs 6 bucks every 2 years won’t break the bank 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/33 "2006-06-05T16:14:37Z")
I always thought “State Store” sounded kind of Stalinist. Especially when you consider that Pennsylvania is not a state; it’s a commonwealth. Sometimes I like to use the term “The Glorious Beer Store of the People’s Glorious Victory Over Cheap and Readily Accessible Beer.” I am always amazed that these places are still in existence. I suppose New York is almost as bad, though, since everyone would like to have wine in grocery stores except liquor store owners. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/34 "2006-06-05T16:36:37Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] I’ll vouch for the crappiness of Montana’s State Stores. Granted, there was a casino just down the street from my apartment that I could run to for a quick bottle of whatever, but that was about it. The State stores in MT suck (at least the ones in Great Falls). They don’t take credit/debit cards, and they give you a hassle when you try to pay with a check. I much rather shop my local Class Six (military). Better booze, better prices, and they actually can special order what you want and have it to you within a week. Tripler Cheap booze: It’s one of the most-used military benefits. 😃 [/QUOTE] I like the Class Six store, too. But since I don’t live on base, it’s not worth the hassle. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/35 "2006-06-05T19:08:48Z")
[QUOTE=Crescent] Where in PA were you? Sounds like the outer boonies! State stores have actually improved in the last few years with some stores having a much better wine selection and Sunday hours. I don’t really care if the Wine and Spirits stores stay under the state. Remember when they were State Stores and you walked up to the counter and they went and got you what you wanted? South Carolina is annoying in that they close the ABC stores so early… 7:00 p.m.? Ugh. [/QUOTE] This was Pittsburgh! (Well, Greensburg, I guess. Outside Pittsburgh.) Yes, South Carolina’s blue laws are obnoxious, but at least on non-Sundays you can go down to the Piggly Wiggly and buy a bottle of wine. My local gas station has a “Beer Cave”, by the way. Can’t imagine that up in PA. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102/36 "2006-06-05T21:18:53Z")
I grew up in AZ where you can get just about any booze you want at the grocery store, though you couldn’t buy it after 1am. For a long time I didn’t realize it was different anywhere else. Then I moved to Virginia where you can only get wine and beer at the grocery store, and it has an earlier cutoff time, and the state liquor stores close at 9pm. Don’t remember about Sundays. Now I live in Georgia where you can’t buy alcohol on Sundays, and can only buy beer and wine at a grocery store, but they do have private liquor stores which are mostly open pretty late. I think it’s all pretty stupid. I don’t see the point in limiting when or where you can buy liquor. People who want it are going to buy it… and who cares if they have to buy it the day before or at a different store? I mean legally who cares. Obviously the people care because it’s inconvenient… but I really don’t see the logic in it at all. And blue laws are positively asinine, and borderline unconstitutional. I spent about a month in Texas at one point, and my hotel was just outside of Ft. Worth, and it was in a dry county. So I walked across the street, which was the county line, and went to one of the several liquor stores on the other side. Apparently you were allowed to bring your booze back to the dry county, just not buy it there. I thought the whole thing was laughably stupid and it made my brain boggle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-dopers-should-state-stores-be-abolished/359102.md?page=1)