# PA legislators line up at feeding trough **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143 "2003-12-01T00:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/1 "2003-12-01T00:48:49Z")
For the most part, I ignore the legislature of PA, much as I would disregard someone’s elderly dog who farts and sheds. They’re there, and I have to put up with them, but don’t have to like them. Then, my Sunday paper is graced with this reminder of how much they’re doing for themselves: [annual pay raise.](http://www.pennlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/107018833497650.xml?pennnews) 2.4% increases across the board, despite budget issues in Harrisburg. Governor Rendell had the decency to push away from the table and not take that automatic supersizing of his paycheck. With so many servicemen and women serving around the globe, I have to wonder how many of them saw a similar increase. Who of the nation’s police, firefighters, and EMS workers saw that sort of bump in the wallet? Have you no shame? I’d like to believe your Mothers taught you better. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/2 "2003-12-01T01:08:27Z")
The schools still aren’t funded, and the legislators, who have done fuck-all this session, are getting a raise of 2.4%? Wow. I think I’ll ask my adviser if I can get credit for running for legislator. Lord knows I need the money. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/3 "2003-12-01T01:09:41Z")
Well, that’s what you get when you put the monkeys in charge of the banana plantation… ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/4 "2003-12-01T01:18:51Z")
Stuff like this makes me wonder if it is possible to get a proposition, ballot measure, or any other kind of citizen’s intiative passed that would make so that only the voters can approve the pay raises of the state legislators. The only drawback to that idea is that a pay raise would never happen. Well, maybe it’s not such a bad drawback. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/5 "2003-12-01T02:40:42Z")
Heck, I think all legeslators should make minimum wage. Then watch that minimum wage climb! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/6 "2003-12-01T05:54:58Z")
Library and school funding gets cut. The legislators get a pay raise. Lovely. Just fucking lovely. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Samaritan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bad\_Samaritan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Samaritan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/7 "2003-12-02T03:56:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Atreyu \* > \*\*Stuff like this makes me wonder if it is possible to get a proposition, ballot measure, or any other kind of citizen’s intiative passed that would make so that only the voters can approve the pay raises of the state legislators. \*\* I live in a state where legislative pay raises are voter approved. Guess what’s on the ballot nearly every year? Thankfully, voters have given a resounding thumbs down to 3 of 4 recent tries ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/8 "2003-12-02T05:09:06Z")
The pay rise in question is tied to changes in the Consumer Price Index, a measure of price inflation. That is, as prices rise, so do politician’s salaries. The net effect on their wealth in “real terms” is zero: the increase in pay is offset by a general increase in prices. Would you prefer a position where legislators’ salaries _fall_ in real terms? Would this approach encourage more able people to enter politics? Would more educated professionals enter politics, or would this act as a disincentive to gifted, hard-working people from leaving the private sector to enter government? Would crappier pay for politicians lead to better government, or worse? ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/9 "2003-12-02T05:22:01Z")
… while I’m on a roll… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by danceswithcats \* > **With so many servicemen and women serving around the globe, I have to wonder how many of them saw a similar increase. Who of the nation’s police, firefighters, and EMS workers saw that sort of bump in the wallet?** [Military pay rises](http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/20/pf/saving/war_military_pay/):\*\* > [@](#): > > The minimum pay increase, 4.1 percent this year, is set by law at one-half percent above the average private sector increase. (Prior to 1990, military pay increases were capped at one-half percent below private sector increases.) In 2003, the average military pay increase was 4.7 percent. Pay increases for the military in 2001 were the highest in 20 years, averaging 6.9 percent. \*\*Incidentally, I don’t envy the life of a politician. Consider: - Hideous working hours, including work on weekends and holiday tending to an electorate, official duties outside office hours, and sitting times into the wee hours of the morning. - Frequent travel away from home and family. - Facing intense public scrutiny of one’s private life and family, and the unrelenting cynicism of the public; and - Earning a salary _less_ that what an educated professional could earn in private enterprise. Would _you_ do the job, for the pay at offer? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/10 "2003-12-02T06:04:02Z")
**Jervoise,** just about all of your points hold true for teachers, too…who make a whole heck of a lot less than politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/11 "2003-12-02T06:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni \* > \*\ ***Jervoise,** just about all of your points hold true for teachers, too…who make a whole heck of a lot less than politicians. \*\* With respect, I don’t agree. I don’t think any teacher would care to compare their average weekly working hours and annual vacations against those of a politician. I also don’t think that too many teachers suffer public scrutiny of their private lives (background checks aside) and have to frequently travel away from home. … however, I also don’t want to fall into the trap of arguing teachers have it sweet. They don’t–they work an important job in tough conditions and deserve the public sympathy they attract. But this issue isn’t about teachers and what they may or may not deserve. It’s about a legislators getting a pay rise, _in line with inflation_. If it could be established that the pay increase in question went straight from the pocket of teachers to those of politicians, there may be merit in comparing the two occupations–but this is an automatic increase; there is no casual link. We may as well argue that, say, funding of the arts and teachers’ salaries are linked: “how can we throw money at the arts, when teachers deserve so much more?” So I’ll stick to my previous line: without a CPI pay rise, you will effectively pay legislators _less_ money as time goes by. Do you want the people responsible for governing your state to be paid less each year? Is it acceptable to _you_ that we should provide economic disincentives to educated professionals from entering the world of politics? If you pay peanuts you get the monkeys you darn well deserve. Incidentally, personally I’d be mightly peeved if I only got a 2.4 per cent pay increase next year. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/12 "2003-12-02T13:40:22Z")
You could also argue that something like minimum wage for office-holders would improve government by making certain that the pool of willing candidates is composed of those who truly want to make the government work, as opposed to those looking to make a quick, (with corruption) unethical and (with pensions) long-lasting buck. The best way to keep criminals out of government is to make government office unprofitable. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/13 "2003-12-02T14:56:53Z")
From what I’ve read, when this Nation was founded, those who entered the legislature did so out of sense of obligation to the electorate. Many of them were business persons in their own right, and served their term in office before returning to their private commerce. Nowadays, politicians make a career of it. I disagree with the statement that salaries are comparable to those of teachers. The PSEA is one of the more powerful lobbies in Harrisburg, and starting salaries in most of the suburban Philadelphia school districts are in the $50K and higher range. If you factor in the other perks such as the per diem for attending session (isn’t that what you took the job to do, Bub?), the vehicle, etc., you’re more likely in the $75K range. Enact term limits, put in a pay program that is more in line with median income, benefits that Joe Average can respect, and I believe there would be flock of talented people willing to restore faith in Government by making it work the way the founding fathers intended. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pa-legislators-line-up-at-feeding-trough/216143/14 "2003-12-03T01:31:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by danceswithcats \* > \*\*Enact term limits, put in a pay program that is more in line with median income, benefits that Joe Average can respect, and I believe there would be flock of talented people willing to restore faith in Government by making it work the way the founding fathers intended. \*\* So you propose to (i) decrease job security; and (ii) cut pay and benefits in an effort to attract talented people – who could enjoy better pay and conditions in the private sector – into politics? … I’m not sure that’s going to work. :dubious: > [@](#): > > \*\*You could also argue that something like minimum wage for office-holders would improve government by making certain that the pool of willing candidates is composed of those who truly want to make the government work, as opposed to those looking to make a quick, (with corruption) unethical and (with pensions) long-lasting buck. > > The best way to keep criminals out of government is to make government office unprofitable. \*\*No, it’s not. Not paying politicians a competitive salary will encourage people to enter the game with a view to securing benefits on the side. Your idea will ensure people who enter politics will seek kickbacks, pursue private deals on the side and a develop a willingness to trade political favours for repayment post-political life. And whither your pool of “willing candidates”? Can you honestly imagine a long line of educated, talented professionals snaking around the block seeking to get a tough job which pays _minimum wage_? Pure fantasy. Does anyone care to address my point that the pay rise you’re all bitching about is in line with price inflation? That without this indexed increase, you will effectively pay politicians less each year? Do you all agree that this is the best way to attract the right people to enter politics?