# Pact with the Devil - How To? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919 "2010-01-14T11:47:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/41 "2010-01-16T23:40:37Z")
Try reading my post again, open to the possibility that I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/42 "2010-01-16T23:45:53Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I’d find I could not do it now even for high pay Public servants don’t get paid well at all. > [@](#): > > because the thought of helping some molester or rapist go free who has a record Technically speaking, if he “goes free” (acquitted) then he wouldn’t have a record. > [@](#): > > because the thought of helping some molester or rapist go free who has a record ought to have some queasyness, since he might get your own kids or girl next, I always wondered how they deal with that knowledge that they helped create that next victim? (even if you don’t know them, but suppose you did? Would they ever be sorry they got him off? Or did law school have an answer for that too?) That’s not what a defense attorney is for. Your post suggests you aren’t too familiar with the legal system we have in this country. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/43 "2010-01-17T00:02:05Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > This is something that’s always bothered me about deals with the devil. What does the devil get out of the deal? Seems to me all he gets is a soul that he had a very slim chance of not getting in the natural course of things. Someone who is willing to make a deal with the devil is probably not a very good or pious person. Since the devil gets so little out of this deal, why would he be willing to make it? In _my_ version of the story, when Faust offers to give Mephistopheles his soul, M says, “Yeah, well, you just did. Get me some innocents and you got a deal. But they have to be the people you care about most.” > [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > That’s not what happens in some versions of the story, though. In Goethe’s Faust, Faust gets saved at the end, as does [Pan Twardowski](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Twardowski) (sort of) in the Polish version. > > If you could repent of anything else, why not of having made a deal with the devil? > > In Marlowe’s _Doctor Faustus_, an angel encourages Faustus to do just that, after he made the deal with the devil. Spoiler for classic work of the early Renaissance!Faustus definitely regrets his deal and pleads with heaven for mercy and forgiveness. Even as a dyed-in-the-wool atheist, his final monologue gives me goosebumps. Interestingly, early in the play it is said that demons will drag Faustus _bodily_ into hell, but at the end, parts of his body are found strewn about his house. Now probably the author was more concerned with creating as gruesome and ending as possible than maintaining internal consistency, but it does allow room for the interpretation that Faustus did _not_ go to hell; the demons took their revenge on his body, but his soul escaped. > [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Defense attorneys are those with the highest link to the devil, but so are their law school teachers and on down. > > There is a secondary smaller market in making and dealing addictive drugs, and that includes legal ones. > > People in these fields know they are doing evil and want to continue, which is a good definition of having a pact with the devil. I’m sure should you be charged with a crime you will do the Christian thing and plead no contest, as opposed to availing yourself of any demonic service, regardless of the fact that you might actually be innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/44 "2010-01-17T01:33:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Think Step 3 requires a guitar. And the appropriate crossroads are located near Clarksdale, Mississippi. Just be warned, at some point you’ll have to go head to head with Steve Vai in a guitar duel. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/45 "2010-01-17T03:40:47Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I’d find I could not do it now even for high pay because the thought of helping some molester or rapist go free who has a record ought to have some queasyness, since he might get your own kids or girl next, I always wondered how they deal with that knowledge that they helped create that next victim? (even if you don’t know them, but suppose you did? Would they ever be sorry they got him off? Or did law school have an answer for that too?) You’ve convinced me. Clearly, we need to do away with the constitutional right to counsel for the accused, the right to trial by jury, and due process in criminal proceedings. What do you propose we substitute in their place? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/46 "2010-01-17T05:38:24Z")
For an actual factual answer to this question, Pat Robertson was referring to [The Bois Caïman Ceremony](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutty_Boukman#Ceremony_at_the_Bois_Ca.C3.AFman) where: > [@](#): > > In August 1791, Boukman presided in the role of houngan (priest) together with an African-born priestess and conducted a ceremony at the Bois Caïman and prophesied that the slaves Jean François, Biassou, and Jeannot would be leaders of a slave revolt that would free the slaves of Saint-Domingue. A pig, which symbolized the wild, free, and untamable spiritual power of the forest and the ancestors, was sacrificed, an oath was taken, and Boukman and the priestess exhorted the listeners to take vengeance against their oppressors and “[c]ast aside the image of the God of the whites.”[3] According to the Encyclopedia of African Religion, “Blood from the animal, and some say from humans as well, was given in a drink to the attendees to seal their fates in loyalty to the cause of liberation of Sainte-Domingue.” ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/47 "2010-01-17T06:58:34Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Let me assure you and **silenus** that as a public defender, I couldn’t be any happier with the deal Satan and I have struck, especially when I get to hear bullshit like this. > > Endless riches, fame and fortune, all the glory and honor of an epic warrior king, that’s what I asked Him for, and that’s what He’s bestowed upon me. What’d you give him in return? When I negotiated my deal I managed to haggle him down to a Grateful Dead CD and a box of matches on my part of the deal. I hear Ol’ Scratch pulls punches on us non-lawyer types though. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/48 "2010-01-17T14:48:47Z")
Prav, well start with a justice system that seeks the truth always, and never excludes evidence unless the evidence is false or planted, and one where every accused must say his piece about what happened or where he was. If he would not, then a guilty plea would be entered in his behalf. There is a good start on a better idea. Make the only person that can lie the defendant himself, everyone else would be seeking actual truth of what happened. Shal, thanks for the factual info, there really was a pact to get rid of the Christian God, so Pat was not just speaking generally. Well a ceremony like that would sure qualify as a pact, that is for sure. I had assumed it was the voodoo but it was also the actual fact a real pact was made, what do you know about that. Thanks!! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/49 "2010-01-17T18:08:27Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Prav, well start with a justice system that seeks the truth always, and never excludes evidence unless the evidence is false or planted, and one where every accused must say his piece about what happened or where he was. If he would not, then a guilty plea would be entered in his behalf. So you also propose doing away with excluding illegally obtained evidence and the right not to incriminate oneself, and that we shift the burden of proof to the defendant to prove his own innocence. What have you got against the Bill of Rights? > [@Silverstreak Wonder](#): > > There is a good start on a better idea. Make the only person that can lie the defendant himself, everyone else would be seeking actual truth of what happened. The role of the defense attorney is to mount a defense for the defendant, ensure that the evidence against him is legally obtained and entered, and to point out flaws in the prosecution’s case, not to flat out lie to the court. Contrary to public misperception, an attorney who lies to the court is engaging in unprofessional and unethical behavior and subject to disciplinary action, up to and including disbarment. > [@Silverstreak Wonder](#): > > ]Shal, thanks for the factual info, there really was a pact to get rid of the Christian God, so Pat was not just speaking generally. Well a ceremony like that would sure qualify as a pact, that is for sure. I had assumed it was the voodoo but it was also the actual fact a real pact was made, what do you know about that. Thanks!! You don’t actually believe the Haiti earthquake was caused by a pact with Satan, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/50 "2010-01-17T19:04:45Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > You’ve convinced me. Clearly, we need to do away with the constitutional right to counsel for the accused, the right to trial by jury, and due process in criminal proceedings. What do you propose we substitute in their place? [Trial by ordeal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_ordeal), ofcourse! ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919/51 "2010-01-17T19:24:26Z")
I guess after striking out in Georgia, Satan went to Haiti, and they couldn’t find a good enough fiddle player… or maybe Pat Robertson is just a nutcase. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pact-with-the-devil-how-to/524919.md?page=2)