# Paging Oliver Stone -- Leni Riefenstahl is on the line. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 26, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289 "2003-04-26T07:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odieman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a87d85/32.png) [@Odieman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odieman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/21 "2003-04-27T16:03:29Z")
Arnold the Pig, not to be confused with Arnold Winkelreid 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morrigoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/22 "2003-04-27T16:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Before we start calling Oliver Stone anti-American let me remind everybody that he served for fifteen months in Vietnam with the 25th infantry. He was wounded twice in combat and received the Bronze Star for Valor and a Purple Heart. I thought we were supposed to show respect for war heros around here. \*\* And if he hadn’t followed that service several years later by appearing in front of an impressionable college-age audience saying, “I hate America”, then I wouldn’t be here complaining about him. He served, great, I have respect for his _service_, but I have no respect for his actions since then, or for the man himself. …And the reason it took seeing him speak to turn me against him is because I can’t recall one Stone film I’ve seen all the way through. Maybe I have seen one, I just can’t remember it. I can remember the Spielberg/Ron Howard/Lucas/Rob Marshall films. So he obviously isn’t in that category. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/23 "2003-04-27T18:49:02Z")
\*\*Reasons I _Love_ This Board CXVI: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **don’t ask** _ > Do you mean that Oliver Stone and Oliver North are different people? > > _Originally posted by **Satisfying Andy Licious** _ > What ignorance. Of course they’re different. One of them starred with Stan Laurel. > > I got to explain everything round here. > > _Originally posted by **Little Nemo** _ > > But which one did Charles Dickens base the lead character in Green Acres on? > > _Originally posted by **Odieman** _ > Arnold the Pig, not to be confused with Arnold Winkelreid 😃 I quite literally had to stop formatting this post halfway through the quote to run to the bathroom to avoid pissing my pants from laughter! ---
**Author:** ![Model-Shipwright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@Model-Shipwright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Model-Shipwright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/24 "2003-04-27T22:18:30Z")
Say what you will about the near celluloid abortion that is JFK, but I celebrate any film that works to assist the people into seeing the stupidity behind the theory of the lone assassin. If you believe that one reputed bad shot half-assed marksman made those shots, then you obviously have zero experience with a rifle, zero experience with ballistics, zero experience with trajectory, and zero experience with targets of opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/25 "2003-04-27T23:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpazCat \* > \*\*When I opened this thread, I couldn’t figure out why people were complaining about an Oliver Stone movie. He doesn’t make movies. Then I realized that I was confusing him with Oliver _North_. I need to lie down for a while… \*\* Sometimes I confuse Oliver North with Peter North. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/26 "2003-04-27T23:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*Eve, just when I think you couldn’t be any cooler, I find out you’re on Oliver Stone’s Enemy List. You rock. \*\* My thought EXACTLY. All hail **Eve**! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/27 "2003-04-28T01:01:47Z")
> [@](#): > > And if he hadn’t followed that service several years later by appearing in front of an impressionable college-age audience saying, “I hate America”, then I wouldn’t be here complaining about him. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/28 "2003-04-28T03:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > If you believe that one reputed bad shot half-assed marksman made those shots, then you obviously have zero experience with a rifle, zero experience with ballistics, zero experience with trajectory, and zero experience with targets of opportunity. Hitting a man sized target two out of three times with a scoped rifle from a resting position at a range of less than 100 yards is trivially easy. An average person could probably do that on their first attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Model-Shipwright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@Model-Shipwright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Model-Shipwright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/29 "2003-04-28T04:12:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Hitting a man sized target two out of three times with a scoped rifle from a resting position at a range of less than 100 yards is trivially easy. An average person could probably do that on their first attempt. He was hitting a HEAD-sized MOVING target at over 80 yards through heavy foliage with a manual (cheap piece of shit) bolt action rifle with a defective scope. how many times have you fired a rifle? I’m curious… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/30 "2003-04-28T06:07:53Z")
Numerous times. It’s part of my job. I’m certainly not a great shot but I do have enough shooting experience to know what I’m talking about. The first time I fired a scoped rifle from a bench I was amazed at how easy it is. As I said, I’m an adequate shooter at best. But under those conditions I had no difficulty repeatedly hitting a five inch target at a hundred yards. And Kennedy’s car was moving barely above walking speed. Personally under conditions that favorable, I’m surprised Oswald actually missed with one of his shots. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/31 "2003-04-28T06:40:27Z")
Didn’t I hear that FBI sharpshooters tried to replicate Oswald’s feat (the number of shots from a bolt action rifle in the same amount of time) and couldn’t? Or did I get that from Stone’s _JFK_? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/32 "2003-04-28T06:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jack@ss \* > \*\*Sometimes I confuse Oliver North with Peter North. \*\* You’ve just ruined porn for me forever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/33 "2003-04-28T06:43:50Z")
Geez, what did you people expect from the bratty kid they brought in for the final season of _The Brady Bunch_? ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/34 "2003-04-28T07:08:25Z")
If only someone would buy a copy of Posner’s _Case Closed_ for all the people who think there was a “conspiracy” involved in the JFK assassination, we wouldn’t have to actually debate any of this again ever. He answers all the questions through a stellar example of investigative journalism, and the answers are 1) Oswald was the only gunmen, and 2) he had no co-conspirators. Of course, if someone did that, Stone and the other conspiracy kooks would immediately suspect that person of being involved with the conspiracy. After all, only a guilty party would try to debunk a conspiracy theory 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Morrigoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/35 "2003-04-28T08:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Cite? \*\* I assume that either you are teasing me because of what went on the alcoholism thread, or you didn’t read my earlier post on this subject. Cite: I WAS PRESENT at the event when he said it. You may take it from me with a grain of salt as you wish (I certainly do with secondhand information), but I know from personal experience that he said it. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/36 "2003-04-28T09:56:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Model-Shipwright \* > \*\*He was hitting a HEAD-sized MOVING target at over 80 yards through heavy foliage with a manual (cheap piece of shit) bolt action rifle with a defective scope. how many times have you fired a rifle? I’m curious… \*\* The motorcade was moving more or less towards the building, creating little apparent motion from the shooter’s point of view. If the car were moving latrerally, perpendicular to the shooter, yes, that would a large degree of difficulty. As noted, the motorcade was also moving very slowly, little more than walking speed. And Oswald may have _hit_ JFK in the head, but who’s to say that’s where he was aiming? Fire three quick shots at the targets center of mass and one “lucky” round happens to tag 'im in the head. Even a truly awful and worn-out rifle can keep three shots inside a 12" circle at under a hundred yards. Oswald’s may have been an Italian war-surplus leftover, but I doubt it was _that_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/37 "2003-04-28T12:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrigoon \* > \*\*And if he hadn’t followed that service several years later by appearing in front of an impressionable college-age audience saying, “I hate America”, then I wouldn’t be here complaining about him. > > He served, great, I have respect for his _service_, but I have no respect for his actions since then, or for the man himself. > > …And the reason it took seeing him speak to turn me against him is because I can’t recall one Stone film I’ve seen all the way through. Maybe I have seen one, I just can’t remember it. I can remember the Spielberg/Ron Howard/Lucas/Rob Marshall films. So he obviously isn’t in that category. \*\* Actually, that tells us a whole lot more about you than Stone… ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/38 "2003-04-28T12:46:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\*Actually, that tells us a whole lot more about you than Stone… \*\* That Morrigoon has taste? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/39 "2003-04-28T17:18:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Model-Shipwright \* > \*\*He was hitting a HEAD-sized MOVING target at over 80 yards through heavy foliage with a manual (cheap piece of shit) bolt action rifle with a defective scope. how many times have you fired a rifle? I’m curious… \*\* Cheap-piece-of-shit? Cheap maybe, only because it was surplus war stuff. The Carcano is actaully a good, accurate weapon. Heavy foliage? One tree, in November. Tree is only in way for the first shot (The one that most likely missed). Moving? Yeah, a bit. tracking a target that’s moving away when you have height advantage. It wasn’t like the limo driver was racing. Defective scope? Sorry bub. That was a Japanese made scope and they’ve had excellent optical quality since way before they were exporting cars and TVs. It was misaligned, but we don’t know if it was like that during the shooting or after Oswald dropped it 6 feet between crates onto its stock. As for me, I’ve fired plenty of BA rifles. A friend of mine has a C&R licence and has just about every bolt action from the first and second wars. I’ve shot plenty, and I could pull it off, even though I am a mediocre shot at best. Unlike Oswald who was trained by the Marines and got good ratings. That “Oswald was a poor shot” doesn’t pass the sniff test. If you like, you can take this tanget to the **Great Debates**. Just post a link, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289/40 "2003-04-28T17:38:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\*Actually, that tells us a whole lot more about you than Stone… \*\* Speaking of which, I always get you mixed up with… \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paging-oliver-stone-leni-riefenstahl-is-on-the-line/171289.md?page=3)