# pah-pah-pah-patents **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2000, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853 "2000-07-26T01:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/1 "2000-07-26T01:06:36Z")
has anybody out there gotten a patent before? i don’t knowwhat the hell i’m doing. i searched through the patent bureau records and didn’t find anything coming close to my idea (i did a web search; i didn’t actually goto dc). do i need a lawyer? or can i do all the filing and stuff myself? and approximately how much cashola will i be putting out? i had one good patentable idea so far. this was while still in high school. remember those microphone dealies that would allow you to broadcast your voice over an fm radio? when i was little i had the michael jackson one. and damnit if i wasn’t a badass. you see, my problem was that my parents were very cheap. at the time, neither of our two cars (used ancient chevy malibu and a new ford aerostar) had either tape or cd abilities. i figured one day, in a flash of saul-like inspiration, ‘hey, i can get around my parents’ parsimoniousness real easy like’. my paln was to take one of these old microphone transmitter affairs, remove the actual microphone piece, and connect the two wires from a headphone jack to the former microphone leads. all i needed was one of these blasted sing-a-long mikes. i went to radioshack and asked the fellow if they carried them. he asked what i needed it for. in my naivete i explained. he told me, “oh no, that won’t work for your purposes. you need this fm transmitter kit”, which happened to cost twice as much. i took it home and soldered it myself, and attached the leads. oh, by the way, did i mention that i couldn’t solder if the lord jesus christ himself told me to? after burnt finget, solder stains in the carpet, and a ruined $14 kit, i figured “Bah!”. a few months later, while browsing through the new RS catalog, i saw my invention. true, i can’t prove that this guy had anything to do with it (lthough i have seen neither hide nor tail of the fella since). and true, now we have a cd player and a tape player in the new van. but still. so i wanna get this new invention patented, even if it’s worthless. just in case the guy stops by my house (also in my naivete, i gave him my real address and whatnot). can anyone help me avenge myself? i assure you that it’s a real idea (not necessarily a real good idea, though). peace out. jb ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/2 "2000-07-26T01:34:53Z")
Sorry jb…everything that can be invented already has been. But just for kicks you might look at these: [http://www.patentspending.com/](http://www.patentspending.com/) > **[The U. S. Government](https://www.thoughtco.com/us-government-4133021)** > > Learn about the form and functions of the US government with detailed articles, extensive study guides, homework helpers, and clear, unbiased analysis of politics and policy. [http://sunsite.unc.edu/patents/intropat.html](http://sunsite.unc.edu/patents/intropat.html) > **[Patents.com - The Rarest Patent and IP Protection Domain Name Now Available...](https://patents.com)** > > The domain patents.com is now available for purchase. An unprecedented opportunity to own the rarest possible domain name ever registered for patents, inventions, process protection, and intellectual property. [http://patents.cos.com](http://patents.cos.com) [http://cnidr.org/](http://cnidr.org/) > **[U.S. Code: Title 35. PATENTS](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35)** ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/3 "2000-07-26T05:39:09Z")
Go to your local library and check out a copy of “Patent it Yourself”, or, if you’re really serious, buy one. Then prepare yourself for an experience akin to Alice falling down the rabbit hole. Also remember having a patent and making money from the patent are two different things. I also think that if you hired a professional to do a patent search for you, you will find that your idea has already been patented. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/4 "2000-07-26T08:39:18Z")
- - - The best way to patent something is to pay a patent lawyer to handle it. - - - The best way to find a patent lawyer is to ask your regular lawyer to recommend someone. - - - The main problem with patenting anything is that it doesn’t really stop anyone else from stealing your idea outright. Patents can take years to get approved, and they can be contested even if they are, and factories in the Far East won’t give a crap anyway. For that matter, factories down the street might not care, either. - There are many, many stories of inventors who didn’t profit badly at all on their invention, but who spent all their profits on litigation in an attempt to stop patent infringment. - MC ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/5 "2000-08-05T06:54:01Z")
so _ **nobody** _ here has ever gotten a patent? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/6 "2000-08-05T07:03:58Z")
We just know stuff, we don’t invent stuff. ---
**Author:** ![JonF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JonF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonF)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/7 "2000-08-05T11:19:17Z")
> [@](#): > > so nobody here has ever gotten a patent? I have one in process that’s apparently fairly close to being awarded (the examiner just notified me that he’s disallowing three of my ten claims, which suggests to me that he’s allowing the other seven). If it is indeed awarded, it’ll be a cute plaque to hang on the wall, a nice thing to put in my resume, and otherwise worthless. I sincerely doubt that it’s defendable. But the company for which I work is paying for the lawyer and the process (in return for an assignment of teh patent rights). I’m involved in a few others that are earlier in the process. I’ve never attempted to get a patenet on my own. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/8 "2000-08-05T13:03:19Z")
from [this](http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.html) page: > [@](#): > > For most individuals and small scale startups, patents are virtually certain to result in a net loss of time, energy, money, and sanity. > > One reason for this is the outrageously wrong urban lore involving patents and patenting. A second involves the outright scams which inevitably surround “inventions” and “inventing”. > > A third is that the economic breakeven needed to recover patent costs is something between $12,000,000.00 and $40,000,000 in gross sales. It is ludicrously absurd to try and patent a million dollar idea. good luck ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/9 "2000-08-05T13:16:43Z")
from the same author [http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja\_index/glib/patnthor.pdf](http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja%5Findex/glib/patnthor.pdf) “A patent is only the right to sue someone. The cost, time and energy of obtaining a patent is utterly negligible compared to the time, cost and energy needed to maintain and defend that patent” (this paper is very interesting on this topic. See also [http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja\_index/glib/bustpat.pdf](http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja%5Findex/glib/bustpat.pdf) [http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja\_index/glib/when2pat.pdf](http://www.tinaja.com/tinaja%5Findex/glib/when2pat.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/10 "2000-08-06T04:37:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry jb…everything that can be invented already has been. I certainly hope not, or my agency is going to be disbanded! 🙂 > [@](#): > > so nobody here has ever gotten a patent? Even if I wanted to, I’m not allowed to. > [@](#): > > - > - > - The best way to find a patent lawyer is to ask your regular lawyer to recommend someone. Or ask someone who works for the U.S. Patent & Trademark Department and has to deal with them every day (i.e.: me). > [@](#): > > - > - > - The main problem with patenting anything is that it doesn’t really stop anyone else from stealing your idea outright. Patents can take years to get approved, and they can be contested even if they are, and factories in the Far East won’t give a crap anyway. For that matter, factories down the street might not care, either. Even though I work for the PTO, I’m no expert in this area. Yes, a patent application can take years to be approved. Yes, people & companies somtimes get sued for patent infringement. As long as you file your application before anyone else, there shouldn’t be a problem. If you file an application on an invention similar to one filed previously, then you can have a problem. You’ll need to prove that there are significant differences between your application and one previously filed. Thanks to the Patent Cooperative Treaty, you can also file your application in other countries, or even worldwide. > [@](#): > > I have one in process that’s apparently fairly close to being awarded (the examiner just notified me that he’s disallowing three of my ten claims, which suggests to me that he’s allowing the other seven). If it is indeed awarded, it’ll be a cute plaque to hang on the wall, a nice thing to put in my resume, and otherwise worthless. I sincerely doubt that it’s defendable. But the company for which I work is paying for the lawyer and the process (in return for an assignment of teh patent rights). Which will be coming through my section. My father has his name on a few patents, one of which is still listed in the PTO’s database. One of his patents earned so much money for his company that they practically doubled his salary. ---
**Author:** ![JonF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JonF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonF)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/11 "2000-08-06T12:30:24Z")
> [@](#): > > My father has his name on a few patents, one of which is still listed in the PTO’s database. One of his patents earned so much money for his company that they practically doubled his salary. I may have implied that I think all patents are practically useless. Not so. The _particular_ patent for which I am applying is probably useless. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/12 "2000-08-06T15:11:51Z")
For individuals patents _are_ pretty much useless. They are only a tool in legal suits which will cost millions. If you are not going to be playing that game a patent is useless. You can pretty much patent anything as shown by [this](http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05443036__) page where you can see a patent granted to someone for the idea of using a laser pointer to “exercise” (play) a cat. If you do that you are breaking his patent rights. For a case against patents check out [http://people.qualcomm.com/karn/patents/patents.html](http://people.qualcomm.com/karn/patents/patents.html) ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/13 "2000-08-06T19:01:02Z")
The method I use is my boss says you should patent that. Then I write something up and submit it to our patent department. A few months later I have an interview with the patent lawyer. A little while after that I review the document they are going to send in. I sign a bunch of papers giving the invention to the company. A while after that the company gives me a small bonus. Mabey in a year or two if the patent issues I get another bonus and a hansome plaque with the 1st page of the patent. I think you will find that is how most people get patents. I know this does not help you at all but that is how I do it. Getting a patent is expensive. Patent lawyers are among the highest paid of lawyers and if your patent is not written well it will be overturned if people can use it to make money. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/14 "2000-08-06T20:38:56Z")
> [@](#): > > For individuals patents _are_ pretty much useless. Unless said individual can find some company to buy the patent rights. FYI: the world of patents is quite diverse. For example, someone can come up with a new design for a soda bottle and file a patent application on just the design. Or a rose breeder who finds a new plant in the greenhouse can file for a plant patent. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/15 "2000-08-06T20:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > You can pretty much patent anything as shown by this page where you can see a patent granted to someone for the idea of using a laser pointer to “exercise” (play) a cat. If you do that you are breaking his patent rights. Hmm, looks to me like this patent was issued for the pointer, not what the pointer is used for. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/16 "2000-08-07T04:40:08Z")
Hmmmm, the abstract says “METHOD for exercising a cat”. Where do you get the patent is for the pointer? Jeff, I do not think many companies would buy a patent like that. They patent their own stuff but I doubt they would _even_ talk to you if you said you have an idea to sell because they may be working on something similar and later you could sue them saying they stole it. I think the days of the lone inventor pretty much ended before Edison. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/17 "2000-08-07T09:22:16Z")
Hell with the cats. Are you saying it’s going to cost me _twelve million dollars_ to patent my pager/vibrator scheme? That’s quite beyond my means, and many young ladies will languish as a result. Incidentally, the lone inventor is still alive and well. The guy who invented Gatorade also made ski bindings, and many, if not most, of the “killer apps” that run wild across the Internet are the brainchild of a few individuals. I cite Napster, Gnutella, DeCSS, and De733t as examples, although some of these programs are not patented. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/18 "2000-08-07T09:24:11Z")
Correction: Napster is not a program, _per se_, but you get my drift, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/19 "2000-08-07T12:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > ``` > Hmmmm, the abstract says "METHOD for exercising a cat". Where do you get the patent is for the pointer? > > ``` Like I said, I’m no expert, but that’s the impression I got from the description. > [@](#): > > ``` > Jeff, I do not think many companies would buy a patent like that. They patent their own stuff but I doubt they would *even* talk to you if you said you have an idea to sell because they may be working on something similar and later you could sue them saying > they stole it. I think the days of the lone inventor pretty much ended before Edison. > > ``` True, there probably isn’t a company that would be interested enough to buy the rights to this particlaur patent. However, the toy indsustry is one area where the lone inventer is still quite welcome and probably will be for years to come. Visit any toy convention and you will see a few lone inventors trying to generate interest in their toy, which can lead to a deal with a toy company. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853/20 "2000-08-07T12:52:36Z")
Sailor is absolutely correct. For the Average Joe, patents are a total waste of time, energy, and (most importantly) money. 99.999% of independent people who file do not make a dime off the patent process. If you “invent” something on your own, do yourself a favor and stay as FAR AWAY from ANYTHING even remotely related to the patent process. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pah-pah-pah-patents/26853.md?page=2)