# Paid Patriotism at Sporting Events **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 5, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750 "2015-11-05T19:24:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/1 "2015-11-05T19:24:45Z")
The Department of Defense spent $53 million to the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, and MLS on patriotic marketing campaigns. When you saw an American flag that spans the entire football field, that team was profiting from the DOD. Same for ceremonies honoring the military, color guard demonstrations, even those on-field family reunions with returning vets. Roger Goodell, quick to get out in front of a good controversy these days, says the NFL will be auditing marketing contracts and returning money for paid patriotism. John McCain and plenty of others are upset that those weren’t genuine demonstrations of patriotism by the major sports leagues and organizations, and I completely understand that notion. I would not have guessed that teams were profiting from those activities and it does give it a cheapened feeling. On the other hand, I see where the DOD is coming from. You’d hope they could convince organizations “it’s the right thing to do” but they need to market the military. They need to keep recruiting. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/05/dod-slammed-for-millions-spent-on-paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/05/dod-slammed-for-millions-spent-on-paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/2 "2015-11-05T19:39:34Z")
Cheezy… ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/3 "2015-11-05T19:40:22Z")
Wait a minute…there were actually people who believe that those events are purely a result of patriotic feeling? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/4 "2015-11-05T19:49:40Z")
You know, I always kind of assumed it was the teams paying the military for those displays, not vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/5 "2015-11-05T20:08:08Z")
Back in September, Deadspin had an article titled [“Surprise Military Reunions At NFL Games Reach Peak Bullshit”](http://deadspin.com/surprise-military-reunions-at-nfl-games-reach-peak-bull-1727940877?trending_test_c&utm_expid=66866090-62._DVNDEZYQh2S4K00ZSnKcw.3&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fdeadspin.com%2Fsurprise-military-reunions-at-nfl-games-reach-peak-bull-1727940877), which took apart a “soldier comes home” moment at a Rams preseason game. The article is short, and well worth a read. Some key parts: > [@Article you should read](#): > > Candace Ruocco Valentine [the “surprised wife”] is in fact a cheerleader for the St. Louis Rams. She made her debut this past weekend, at the very game at which her husband surprised her with his return from abroad. She’s several other things as well: a first lieutenant in the USMC (without wanting to scrutinize the gender politics of something that involves Rampage the Ram too closely, one might wonder why no headline writer went with “Husband Surprises Military Wife At Her Job”); a former White House intern who worked under Laura Bush; and a member of the Ruocco family, which is heavily involved in Illinois Republican politics. > > August Valentine, meanwhile, is in fact a first lieutenant in the USMC. He made his surprise return to St. Louis, though, not from, say, the anxiety and peril of a security mission in Anbar province, but from a posting in South Korea, where combat operations wound down 62 years ago. He also happens to be not some anonymous leatherneck but a member of the galactically wealthy Busch family, which built the Anheuser-Busch corporation and, years after the sale of the business, retains incredible power in St. Louis. > > \ > > [speaking of Candace Ruocco’s mom Katherin, who helped arrange the spectacle] … that would be the same Katherine Ruocco who is running for a state representative’s seat in Illinois, and who now has a patriotic viral video featuring her family—lately seen on Fox News—to share on her campaign’s official Facebook page. > > \ > > [A]nd given that Candace Ruocco Valentine is not only the member of two connected families and a former White House intern but has pursued or is pursuing both a JD and a doctorate in public policy analysis, one suspects that this moment may be shared on some campaign page of her own before too long Advertising for the USMC; advertising for a Republican politician; money for the NFL. Win-win-win!! ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/6 "2015-11-05T20:13:15Z")
The government is stupid for paying for patriotism, but worse are those that accept it. It’s shameful to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/7 "2015-11-05T20:22:23Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > Wait a minute…there were actually people who believe that those events are purely a result of patriotic feeling? I chalked it up to teams feeling like they had to kind of keep up with the Joneses on their acts of patriotism. I mean I’m not shocked to learn it was jointly organized with the DOD, but the fact that they profited is a little surprising. I agree it’s somewhat shameful. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/8 "2015-11-05T22:36:00Z")
Same here. i certainly didn’t think the teams were doing it out of an abundance of patriotism, but I figured it was to appeal to the typical sports fan who is generally more on the patriotic side. I was surprised the teams actually get paid for it. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/9 "2015-11-05T23:46:49Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Back in September, Deadspin had an article titled [“Surprise Military Reunions At NFL Games Reach Peak Bullshit”](http://deadspin.com/surprise-military-reunions-at-nfl-games-reach-peak-bull-1727940877?trending_test_c&utm_expid=66866090-62._DVNDEZYQh2S4K00ZSnKcw.3&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fdeadspin.com%2Fsurprise-military-reunions-at-nfl-games-reach-peak-bull-1727940877), which took apart a “soldier comes home” moment at a Rams preseason game. The article is short, and well worth a read. Some key parts: > Advertising for the USMC; advertising for a Republican politician; money for the NFL. Win-win-win!! Wow. Just wow. That story is so representative of what is wrong with this country. Seriously, a rich guy with connections coming home from Korea? ETA: Add me to the list of people surprised at this. I understand the military needs to advertise, but I always saw this as a “goodwill” thing between the NFL, the military, and their patriotic fanbase. How much does Breast Cancer Research pay for all the October pink? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/10 "2015-11-05T23:57:05Z")
I thought this was old news; am I wrong? Seems like this came to light about fifteen years ago when we learned the government was paying to have movies and TV shows show drug use as something inherently bad . ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/11 "2015-11-06T00:19:06Z")
This is disgusting. It sounds like the military made the offer to the teams, meaning they should spend one hour less than eternity in hell for accepting. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/12 "2015-11-06T00:52:40Z")
The number of people who are surprised and shocked at this is hilarious. Basic rule of thumb: If the question is “Why is a pro sports team doing something,” the first reason is always “Money.” No exceptions. The second reason is probably also “Money.” The third reason is probably “We think this will help us make more money.” The fourth is, “Hey, our fans are gullible, and they might spend more money if we do this.” ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/13 "2015-11-06T00:58:50Z")
You’re missing the reason for the surprise. No one is surprised that it was about money. I am surprised the money is coming from the DOD, and wasn’t a marketing ploy cooked up by the teams to look good to their fans. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/14 "2015-11-06T01:06:21Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > You’re missing the reason for the surprise. No one is surprised that it was about money. I am surprised the money is coming from the DOD, and wasn’t a marketing ploy cooked up by the teams to look good to their fans. I’m sure it was, at least in part, “a marketing ploy cooked up by the teams to look good to their fans.” But you’re not thinking like a true sports entrepreneur. If you can market yourself AND get the government to fork over tens of millions of dollars in the process, why not do it? It’s the same worldview that allows them to say, with a straight face, that it’s in our own best interests to hand over half a billion in taxpayer money to build a new stadium that will pad the portfolio of a multi-billionaire team owner. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/15 "2015-11-06T01:36:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You know, I always kind of assumed it was the teams paying the military for those displays, not vice versa. Yeah, if you asked me, I would’ve said that I thought the teams were making a nice donation to the military and said they’d have a little demonstration so they could feel good about it, in return for a nice tax break. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/16 "2015-11-06T15:24:17Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > You’re missing the reason for the surprise. No one is surprised that it was about money. I am surprised the money is coming from the DOD, and wasn’t a marketing ploy cooked up by the teams to look good to their fans. I suppose if you didn’t think it through, you might be surprised. _Qui bono?_ Did the teams make a lot more money with their show of patriotism? I don’t think it affected ticket sales at all; the stadia are as filled as they ever were, given the respective states of the teams and local fandom. TV money was unchanged. Looking good to the fans is irrelevant unless it increases income. And money made directly from fans is about as good as it’s ever been. So it’s not a money-maker for the team unless someone pays specifically for it. Who could that be? Who has deep pockets and a specific bankable interest in stirring up patriotism? As well as the actual resources to organize and support a rousing show of militaristic jingoism? Who could that be? 😕 The only question remains is “did the leagues reach out to the DoD, or did the DoD propose this to the leagues?” And that’s pretty much a difference which makes no difference. A sincere show of patriotism would have been a cost, not a profit. Hence, no matter what that was, it wasn’t a sincere show of patriotism. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/17 "2015-11-06T15:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think it affected ticket sales at all; the stadia are as filled as they ever were, given the respective states of the teams and local fandom. It’s been a long time since ticket sales have been a significant part of the pro sports income stream… but even so, there are still usually empty seats available. > [@](#): > > TV money was unchanged. TV money depends on how much the advertisers pay, which in turn depends on how many people are watching, which could very plausibly be increased. Plus, of course, it’s not just increases in audience that they’re concerned about, but decreases: If a league _didn’t_ continue to one-up all the other leagues in shows of how superficially patriotic they were, that might cause them to lose audience. They don’t want to risk that. > [@](#): > > Hence, no matter what that was, it wasn’t a sincere show of patriotism. I think we all agree on that point. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/18 "2015-11-06T15:37:02Z")
So much for the cheese [Hoops for Troops](http://www.nba.com/cares/hft_overview.html) (with star-spangled socks included) currently happening in the NBA. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/19 "2015-11-06T16:24:08Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Looking good to the fans is irrelevant unless it increases income. Looking good to the fans is never irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750/20 "2015-11-06T16:32:59Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Looking good to the fans is never irrelevant. I stand by my assertion: it matters only as far as it translates into revenue. Either sustaining current revenue, or building new. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paid-patriotism-at-sporting-events/736750.md?page=2)