# Pailin worse than Quayle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092 "2008-10-15T21:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/41 "2008-10-16T18:47:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Andrew Jackson? You’ve got to be kidding. Andy studied law, had extensive experience with the frontier, fought in three wars, was a Senator. I can keep going. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/42 "2008-10-16T18:54:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > No one considered Qualyle to be unqualified in the 1988 election, as far as I can recall.. [CIte](http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/113632988.html?dids=113632988:113632988&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=May+09%2C+1991&author=&pub=The+Sun&desc=Quayle+Unqualified&pqatl=google), [cite](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1206746.html), [cite](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976389,00.html?iid=chix-sphere), [cite](http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/486629/Dan-Quayle), and then I got bored. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/43 "2008-10-16T18:56:08Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > You’ve got to be kidding. Andy studied law, had extensive experience with the frontier, fought in three wars, was a Senator. I can keep going. In _A History of the American People,_ Paul Johnson characterized Jackson as the “most intellectually incompetent” POTUS ever. Granted, Johnson is a RW and heavily biased, and in the same book sniffed much genteel disapproval over the populist surge that put Jackson in office. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/44 "2008-10-16T19:01:00Z")
> [@](#): > > No one considered Qualyle to be unqualified in the 1988 election, as far as I can recall.. I have to agree with Shodan on this one. The choice of Quayle was widely questioned at the time and many people considered him unqualified back in 1988 (myself among them). And that was before Lloyd Bentson made him his bitch in the debates. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/45 "2008-10-16T19:03:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ulysses Grant also comes to mind – excellent general, clueless in running a civil government. I mark this up to his confusion at winning in the first place. I think he exited the office with the opinion, ‘If they didn’t want a military general why did they elect me?’ ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/46 "2008-10-16T19:11:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have to agree with Shodan on this one. The choice of Quayle was widely questioned at the time and many people considered him unqualified back in 1988 (myself among them). And that was before Lloyd Bentson made him his bitch in the debates. I’ll agree also on this point. I thought so little of Quayle that after voting for Bush in the Primary I voted for Bill the Cat in the election. Qualye was a terrible choice in my opinion, I was shocked that McCain found a worse choice. BTW: \*\*Shodan \*\*any reply at all to my reply to you? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/47 "2008-10-16T20:04:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [CIte](http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/113632988.html?dids=113632988:113632988&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=May+09%2C+1991&author=&pub=The+Sun&desc=Quayle+Unqualified&pqatl=google), [cite](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1206746.html), [cite](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976389,00.html?iid=chix-sphere), [cite](http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/486629/Dan-Quayle), and then I got bored. > > Regards, > Shodan first one - seems as if they were looking ahead to 1996 (assuming a Bush win) and hoping for a VP nomination who would be feasible then. Quayle wasn’t, having become a joke, but that says nothing about him assuming the role, or what people thought of him in 1988. Second one - a poll after he’d been in office for a year, based on performance in office not previous qualifications. Third one - from 1992. At least it mentions he was considered a light weight. Fourth - repeats the claim, but no cites of references. Quayle certainly wasn’t considered a leading statesman - but neither was William Miller - but his level of ignorance was not a campaign issue. He certainly was no JFK. He lost credibility as he went on, true. But I bet you can find people today saying Bush isn’t qualified to be president, which is a far cry from anyone saying it in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/48 "2008-10-16T20:10:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have to agree with Shodan on this one. The choice of Quayle was widely questioned at the time and many people considered him unqualified back in 1988 (myself among them). And that was before Lloyd Bentson made him his bitch in the debates. Not being like JFK is different from being totally unqualified. It is true that he was in no way a credible presidential candidate, but he didn’t have to wonder what the VP did. I don’t recall anyone even imagining a VP candidate at the low level of Palin back then. Quayle was certainly recruited from the ranks of the AA farm club, at best, but Palin is Little League - if not T ball. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/49 "2008-10-16T20:11:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > BTW: \*\*Shodan \*\*any reply at all to my reply to you? I am not sure what you meant to demonstrate. You haven’t voted for a Republican in the general election in 20 years, since Bush Sr. picked Quayle, in fact. You’re entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion it is simply not the case that the yellow dog Democrats on the SDMB are going to support any Republican, at any time, for any office. That doesn’t happen. McCain is running for President, therefore McCain is evil and corrupt and hypocritical and out of touch and blah blah blah. Palin is running for VP, so Palin is unqualified and evil and stupid and corrupt and blah blah blah. Nominate a Republican for President, and they turn on the switch and the shit starts flying. And it doesn’t ever stop - the name just changes. Remember when Jack Kemp ran for VP with Dole? > [@](#): > > Some felt he was unqualified [Cite.](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_gx5221/is_/ai_n19137842), [cite](http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3404703501.html), [cite](http://www.answers.com/topic/jack-kemp). How about [Mitt Romney?](http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/29321) If you think it is not fairly standard boilerplate to label any Republican as unqualified, you might want to get out more. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/50 "2008-10-16T20:12:24Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ll agree also on this point. I thought so little of Quayle that after voting for Bush in the Primary I voted for Bill the Cat in the election. Qualye was a terrible choice in my opinion, I was shocked that McCain found a worse choice. That’s odd, since Quayle had been Veep for 4 years before Bush and he ran against Clinton. I agree that by 1992 Quayle had become a joke - that wasn’t my claim. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/51 "2008-10-16T20:21:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you think it is not fairly standard boilerplate to label any Republican as unqualified, you might want to get out more. > > Regards, > Shodan I guess [49% of Americans](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/24/wsjnbc-poll-voters-doubt-palins-qualifications-to-be-president/) are Democratic running dogs. Your Romney cite, some random blogger pissed about him not getting the WMD issue, is pretty feeble. Show me some poll numbers about any other vice presidential or presidential candidate that look like Palin’s. Show me polls for McCain for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/52 "2008-10-16T20:22:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That’s odd, since Quayle had been Veep for 4 years before Bush and he ran against Clinton. I agree that by 1992 Quayle had become a joke - that wasn’t my claim. Not that Bill, this “[Bill the Cat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_the_Cat)” in 1988. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/53 "2008-10-16T20:30:43Z")
What I remember: McCain, Cheney, Dole, Kemp, Bush I: No claims they were unqualified. Bush II, Reagan: A few claims they were unqualified. (“Unsuited” is not the same thing as “unqualified.”) Palin, Quayle: Many claims they were unqualified. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/54 "2008-10-16T21:33:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > No one considered Qualyle to be unqualified in the 1988 election, as far as I can recall. > [@Shodan](#): > > [CIte](http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/113632988.html?dids=113632988:113632988&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=May+09%2C+1991&author=&pub=The+Sun&desc=Quayle+Unqualified&pqatl=google), [cite](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1206746.html), [cite](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976389,00.html?iid=chix-sphere), [cite](http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/486629/Dan-Quayle), and then I got bored. > > Regards, > Shodan You see that **Voyager**? You’re _wrong_! Shodan wins the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/55 "2008-10-16T23:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > You see that Voyager? You’re wrong! Shodan wins the thread! I don’t know if he wins the thread but Shodan is right and Voyager is not remembering correctly. Bush named Quayle as his running mate on August 16, 1988. [Here’s](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5DB153BF93AA2575BC0A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1) an article “The Republicans in New Orleans; Convention Message Is Garbled by Quayle Static” from the August 19, 1988 issue of _The New York Times_. [Here’s](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968278-1,00.html) an article “The Republicans: The Quayle Quagmire” from the August 29, 1988 issue of _Time_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/56 "2008-10-16T23:58:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Palin is worse than Quayle in the sense that Palin is running for election, and Quayle isn’t. If it were anybody else, they’d be worse, just like McCain will be “worse than Bush!!!” six months after election (if he is elected, which seems unlikely).McCain is running against him. > > Regards, > Shodan Close, but no cigar. McCain is running to succeed him. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/57 "2008-10-17T07:45:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if he wins the thread but Shodan is right and Voyager is not remembering correctly. > > Bush named Quayle as his running mate on August 16, 1988. [Here’s](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5DB153BF93AA2575BC0A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1) an article “The Republicans in New Orleans; Convention Message Is Garbled by Quayle Static” from the August 19, 1988 issue of _The New York Times_. [Here’s](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968278-1,00.html) an article “The Republicans: The Quayle Quagmire” from the August 29, 1988 issue of _Time_. Sure, Quayle was a draft dodger, like Baby Bush, and a lightweight. But he was a two term Senator without messing himself too much. Notice the Newsweek article said he flubbed five interviews (about the National Guard scandal) during the convention. That’s more than Palin has had in 6 weeks! Maybe the problem is that Palin has taken unqualified to a whole other level Quayle was mediocre, Palin couldn’t find her way around foreign policy with a GPS and a tour guide. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/58 "2008-10-17T10:41:21Z")
At least she can spell. Hint, hint. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/59 "2008-10-17T15:30:55Z")
I think those articles Little Nemo linked to definitely show that Quayle was regarded as a laughable pick. I remember being embarrassed by him because I was a Republican at that point (not that I could vote in 1988, but I had been indoctrinated). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092/60 "2008-10-17T17:15:44Z")
I was a Republican then also, and I wasn’t embarrassed until he made a fool of himself in spelling class down the road from me. I did vote then, and Quayle had nothing to do with my decision. There seem to be 3 types of VP choices. One is the runner-up, like LBJ or Bush Sr. One is the very distinguished member of your party, like Hubert or Biden. These guys are often also-ran candidates. The third is a member of the establishment who is second rate, would never actually run, but who balances the ticket. Think of Spiro, Bill Miller of Quayle. None of them would be anyone’s first choice for president - neither would Eagleton or Shriver, since the Dems do this also. I think you can say in one sense that none of these people would be qualified to be president. But, as insiders, they know the ropes and have been exposed at the national level for a while. So this type of unqualified has been with us for a while. Sometimes we luck out and they are better than they looked, like with Truman. But we’ve been lucky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pailin-worse-than-quayle/468092.md?page=4)