# Pain During Executions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646 "2010-02-27T14:27:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/41 "2010-03-01T07:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Mind you, I personally am in favor of abolishing the death penalty under all circumstances, but if we’re going to have the death penalty, then there’s no reason not to implement it in the quickest and least screw-up-able way possible. Truth be told, it probably doesn’t get that much more un-screwuppable than lethal injection. Plenty could go wrong with shooting somebody in the head or neck–it’s not likely to go wrong very often, but neither is the lethal injection. Even if it’s a bit less foolproof, LI has the considerable advantage of not being traumatic and bloody. (I know not everybody sees that as an advantage, but I think it’s safe to say that on the whole it’s considered as such.) If we’re going to have a death penalty, we have to accept that a certain small percentage of the time it will go wrong and the condemned will suffer before death or even fail to die. Just like we have to accept that a certain small percentage of the people sentenced to the death penalty did not commit the crimes they were accused of. You can minimize these systemic failures, but you can’t eliminate them. (This is the main reason why I oppose the DP.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/42 "2010-03-01T14:06:46Z")
In an execution by lethal injection, [one of the chemicals injected is a paralytic agent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection). One of the points raised by opponents of lethal injection execution is that _if_ the person being executed was experiencing pain, he’d be unable to signal that fact because he’s paralyzed. My WAG is that the real reason for the paralytic agent is to spare the observers’ feelings: even in a painless death, the body can presumably go through some visible death throes in the process of shutting down, and the paralytic minimizes that. But I think the opponents of lethal injection have a point, and the paralytic presumably isn’t there to ease the pain of the person being executed. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/43 "2010-03-01T14:16:25Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > 1. People are different. People don’t react consistently to the same doses of drugs. For instance, there are cases where thiopental is given yet the prisoner remains conscious, but unable to let anyone know. Pancuronium is then given and stops their lungs. They are aware of this, and they consciously suffocate to death. The problem is the process, not enough knock out drug is given. I’m not denying the existance of screw ups here, but how many people who consciously suffoctaed to death bitched about it afterwards? Are we talking Ouija or medium? Or are we in last minute reprieve territory where drugs 2 & 3 were never given and the prisoner reported a failure to lose consciousoness? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/44 "2010-03-01T16:06:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In an execution by lethal injection, [one of the chemicals injected is a paralytic agent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection). One of the points raised by opponents of lethal injection execution is that _if_ the person being executed was experiencing pain, he’d be unable to signal that fact because he’s paralyzed. > > My WAG is that the real reason for the paralytic agent is to spare the observers’ feelings: even in a painless death, the body can presumably go through some visible death throes in the process of shutting down, and the paralytic minimizes that. But I think the opponents of lethal injection have a point, and the paralytic presumably isn’t there to ease the pain of the person being executed. I haven’t a cite, so take this for the (very little) it’s worth - but I seem to recall reading that barbituate overdoses can cause seizures and vomiting. So, yah, it may be painless - but it doesn’t look so. And paralytics prevent this. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/45 "2010-03-04T01:32:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Here is a list of what can get you caned in Singapore.](http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm) I don’t disagree with most of the offences punishable by caning. It would be wonderful if we imposed caning in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/46 "2010-03-04T01:48:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t disagree with most of the offences punishable by caning. It would be wonderful if we imposed caning in the United States. No it wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/47 "2010-03-04T01:59:33Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t disagree with most of the offences punishable by caning. It would be wonderful if we imposed caning in the United States. That’s a pretty Un-American thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/48 "2010-03-04T02:35:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Here’s an ethical can of worms to consider: Many modern anesthetic methods don’t actually stop you from feeling pain; they just stop you from forming memories of the pain. So when you wake up, you think you didn’t feel a thing (because you don’t remember feeling anything), but while it was going on, you did. And this is considered acceptable. Really? So last year during my sleep apnea surgery I was conscious and undergoing a hellish torture that would be illegal in most parts of the world, begging that God would spare me one more second of the pain and the paralysis, but…I just don’t remember any of it because the drugs didn’t let me form a memory? I’m not doubting it, but that’s creepy.. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/49 "2010-03-04T03:05:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s a pretty Un-American thing to say. Such punishment existed in America until the mid-20th Century. Also I propose an experiment by instituting this punishment in some randomly selected areas and comparing after a few years the crime rates. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/50 "2010-03-04T03:16:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Such punishment existed in America until the mid-20th Century. And Slavery existed in America until the mid 19th. What is your point? > [@](#): > > Also I propose an experiment by instituting this punishment in some randomly selected areas and comparing after a few years the crime rates. Your proposal is terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/51 "2010-03-04T03:18:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And Slavery existed in America until the mid 19th. What is your point? He argued it was un-American and possibly despotic. > [@](#): > > Your proposal is terrible. I thought liberals loved experimenting new methods in all sorts of things. I suggest you give this a try. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/52 "2010-03-04T03:22:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t disagree with most of the offences punishable by caning. It would be wonderful if we imposed caning in the United States. I tried to read that list, but it just went on and on aand on … you get the point. One thing caught my eye, in a humorous way, maybe it was just my mood at the time: Piracy. Piracy? We have a guy, a pirate, OK? He has a peg leg, one eye, a hook, you get the picture. I think after all that, a caning wouldn’t even get his attention 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/53 "2010-03-04T03:25:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He argued it was un-American and possibly despotic. Oh it is Un-American, don’t get me wrong. It’s also Un-American to disenfranchise women and minorities. The fact that we did it shows that it was a long and difficult road to shake off the degenerate, backwards and self-destructive impulses of the past. We are getting better. We are becoming the nation we had the promise to be. And small, angry people shouldn’t be allowed to drag us back down. > [@](#): > > I thought liberals loved experimenting new methods in all sorts of things. I suggest you give this a try. Experimenting on new methods is fine, if you have reason to suspect it will work and it doesn’t go against American values. Your idea does neither. In fact it sounds like the sort of thing someone who hadn’t really thought about it at all might come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/54 "2010-03-04T03:47:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Experimenting on new methods is fine, if you have reason to suspect it will work and it doesn’t go against American values. > > Your idea does neither. In fact it sounds like the sort of thing someone who hadn’t really thought about it at all might come up with. It works in Singapore. Also “cruel and unusual punishment” can be interperted to mean almost anything-to some solitary confinement is cruel and unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/55 "2010-03-04T04:03:24Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It works in Singapore. No, it is \*done \*in Singapore. You haven’t shown that it is _working_. > [@](#): > > Also “cruel and unusual punishment” can be interperted to mean almost anything-to some solitary confinement is cruel and unusual. Any sensible person would find whipping someone cruel. Why not rape prisoners with belaying pins? How about cutting them with razor blades? Are you okay with waterboarding prisoners? Just because something makes you sound _tough on crime_ doesn’t mean it is a sensible thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/56 "2010-03-04T04:12:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, it is \*done \*in Singapore. You haven’t shown that it is _working_. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime\_in\_Singapore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Singapore) One of the lowest in the world. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/57 "2010-03-04T04:15:15Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Such punishment existed in America until the mid-20th Century. Also I propose an experiment by instituting this punishment in some randomly selected areas and comparing after a few years the crime rates. I randomly select your house. Daily. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/58 "2010-03-04T04:16:02Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime\_in\_Singapore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Singapore) > > One of the lowest in the world. So I’m guessing you never heard about that correlation doesn’t equal causation thing? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/59 "2010-03-04T04:22:12Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I randomly select your house. Daily. heh heh Wouldn’t random selection blow the hell out of our concept of “equal treatment before the law” or whatever the phrase is? Wouldn’t it also wreck the concept of cruel and unusual punishment? Particularly the unusual part? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646/60 "2010-03-04T04:32:38Z")
Georgia Public TV recently showed a BBC Horizon program called 'How to kill a human being". It addresses the issues raised in this thread. The video can be seen [here](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8068091823725414405&ei=HzePS6LtOZiaqALwpe0D&q=%22how+to+kill+a+human+being%22&hl=en#). The presenter is Michael Portillo, ex-Conservative MP and my MP at one time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pain-during-executions/530646.md?page=4)