# Paint A Vulva Picture: or Mansplaining Fail. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749 "2019-03-08T08:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/101 "2019-03-08T20:55:28Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > but clearly that’s not universal is it? But he didn’t just come in and say that he calls it a vagina, he stated “The correct word is vagina” and argued that those women who called it a vulva were objectively wrong. So even if both terms are interchangeable, he is still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/102 "2019-03-08T21:03:28Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But he didn’t just come in and say that he calls it a vagina, he stated “The correct word is vagina” and argued that those women who called it a vulva were objectively wrong. So even if both terms are interchangeable, he is still wrong. It seems like anyone, male or female, who makes a definitive statement on what it is _normally_ called, without qualification, is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/103 "2019-03-08T21:51:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Unless you meant that the experience of suffering domestic violence is significantly worse for men these days, as they are not believed, denied access to services for victims, and treated socially as being emasculated if they talk about it. Hm. \*Significantly \*worse, huh? I recognize your name, and I know you employ only the most rigorous approach to these kinds of politically charged subjects. Do you have anything that would substantiate that significant difference in suffering? Suffering can be hard to quantify. What about getting murdered? How bad is getting killed, suffering wise? In [2017](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls) in the US, 549 wives were killed, and 110 husbands. 488 girlfriends were murdered and 181 boyfriends. [In](https://www.ozy.com/acumen/us-domestic-violence-murder-rate-rises/89868) [2016](http://vpc.org/studies/wmmw2018.pdf), > [@](#): > > Of the 1,809 women killed, 962 were wives, ex-wives or current girlfriends — meaning more than half were or had been romantically linked to their killer. And the percentage has risen 11 percent since 2014 — these figures are for 2016, the most recent year available — when it had been falling for several years previously. The 962 figure was actually lower than the true number of intimate partner murders, as the FBI doesn’t include ex-girlfriends in its reporting, even though the CDC defines ex-girlfriends as intimate partners. Many domestic violence killings occur right after recent breakups or during separations. > > For comparison’s sake, women murder their male intimate partners at 25 percent that rate, according to data from the National Center for Juvenile Justice. If women were murdering men at equal rates, this month’s conversation about a “scary time” likely would be focused on something other than false accusations. Also true [globally](https://www.heuni.fi/material/attachments/heuni/projects/wd2vDSKcZ/Homicide_and_Gender.pdf): > [@](#): > > Intimate partner/family-related homicide is one form of interpersonal homicide that affects every country, irrespective of affluence and level of development. It is more evenly distributed across regions than other > types of homicides that mostly affects males and is, on average, remarkably stable at the global level. In homicides related to intimate partners or family members, the relationship between victim and perpetrator is characterized by an emotional attachment, as well as other links, often of an economic or legal nature, > whereas the perpetrator and victim in other types of homicide may or may not know each other. Two thirds of the victims globally are female (43,600 in 2012) and one third (20,000) are male. OK, maybe not death, but what about physical injury? That’s [suffering](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/), too. > [@](#): > > While survey studies find that women and men report the perpetration of physical aggression at similar rates, women are much more likely to be injured in domestic violence situations (Archer, 2000; Feder & Henning, 2005; Hamberger, 2005; Temple, Weston, & Marshall, 2005; Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn, & Saltzman, 2007). For example, in the National Survey of Families and Households, of those who reported being injured by an intimate partner, 73% were female (Zlotnick, Kohn, Peterson, & Pearlstein, 1998). In their study of men and women seeking emergency room care, Phelan et al. (2005) found that all of the women had received an injury from a partner, as compared to 39% of the men. Because men are usually larger and stronger than their female partners, men are more likely to injure their partners through relatively low-level violence, such as slapping or pushing (Frieze, 2005). Women who have experienced violence from partners also are more likely than male victims to require medical attention for their injuries (Hamberger, 2005; Tjaden & Thoennes, 2000), and one study found that the average cost per person of injuries caused by partner violence was twice as high for women as for men (Arias & Corso, 2005). Not all suffering is physical, though. What if we had some kind of [comprehensive measure](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562919/) of the experience of abuse that quantified other forms of harm? > [@](#): > > Currently, many of the scales used to quantify IPV measure only discrete acts of violence, whereas the Women’s Experience With Battering Scale (WEB) assesses the more comprehensive concept of battering, defined as a syndrome of control and increasing entrapment that accompanies the use of physical force in intimate relationships (Smith, Tessaro, & Earp, 1995). The WEB was developed by Smith, Earp, and Devellis (1995) and is intended to accurately classify people as battered or nonbattered and gain a victim’s perspective of an assault. > […] > In our study, women disclosing any victimization (with or without perpetration) were more likely to score high on the WEB than men who disclosed victimization with or without perpetration, indicating that women who perpetrate IPV are more likely to be striking back in response to their own victimization experiences. Johnson and Ferraro (2000) would classify this behavior as violent resistance. Furthermore, female victims were 5 times more likely than male victims to have high WEB scores, indicating that female IPV victims are more likely to be exposed to classic battering or, in Johnson and Ferraro’s terminology, intimate terrorism than male victims. > […] > Several studies have demonstrated an association with IPV and increased levels of mental health symptoms (Coker et al., 2002; Kaslow et al., 2001). Romito, Turan, and De Marchi (2005) reported that compared with nonabused women, women who were currently experiencing IPV were almost 6 times more likely to report psychological distress, and women who had experienced IPV in the past were 3 times more likely to have psychological symptoms. In our study, we found that depressive symptoms and PTSD symptoms were associated with higher WEB scores, even when controlling for IPV status, gender, and other demographic factors. This suggests that feelings of being battered and power and control issues are associated with moderate to severe depressive and PTSD symptoms. Often physicians focus on the physical injuries associated with IPV and neglect to ask about mental health symptoms. Our results support the concept that the perception of being battered, regardless of self-reported IPV status, is associated with moderate to severe mental health symptoms. A fair observer might point out that it’s not surprising that something called the “Women’s experience…” scale would end up with higher scores from women. I leave it as an exercise for the reader whether or not to also note anything else about the fact that the rating scale for how shitty it is to be abused is called that in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/104 "2019-03-08T22:12:23Z")
Man corrects women, telling us that in reference to our own external genitalia, “vagina is right” (and therefore, apparently vulva is wrong), tells us that common usage is vagina, even though the women in the article in fact used the word vulva, hence earning his “correction” and addressed a female doctor as “chick.” Totally not mansplaining. I’m glad that was explained to me. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/105 "2019-03-08T22:43:11Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Hm. \*Significantly \*worse, huh? I recognize your name, and I know you employ only the most rigorous approach to these kinds of politically charged subjects. Do you have anything that would substantiate that significant difference in suffering? Suffering can be hard to quantify. > > What about getting murdered? How bad is getting killed, suffering wise? In [2017](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls) in the US, 549 wives were killed, and 110 husbands. 488 girlfriends were murdered and 181 boyfriends. [In](https://www.ozy.com/acumen/us-domestic-violence-murder-rate-rises/89868) [2016](http://vpc.org/studies/wmmw2018.pdf), > > Also true [globally](https://www.heuni.fi/material/attachments/heuni/projects/wd2vDSKcZ/Homicide_and_Gender.pdf): > > OK, maybe not death, but what about physical injury? That’s [suffering](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/), too. > > Not all suffering is physical, though. What if we had some kind of [comprehensive measure](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2562919/) of the experience of abuse that quantified other forms of harm? > > A fair observer might point out that it’s not surprising that something called the “Women’s experience…” scale would end up with higher scores from women. I leave it as an exercise for the reader whether or not to also note anything else about the fact that the rating scale for how shitty it is to be abused is called that in the first place. When it stops being the case that men who are being abused by their wives are the ones being arrested, when they stop being at best ignored and at worst laughed at by the police when they report it, and when there exist shelters for battered men at even a tenth of the level of ones for women, I’ll be interested in arguing further about the incomplete statistics you’ve based your arguments on. In short, though, many injuries and deaths inflicted by women on men are not recorded as such. The situation overall is still better than it was only a few decades ago, when most domestic violence was ignored regardless of who the perpetrator was, so that’s something at least. I will add that this is one of the relatively few ways that men are worse off than women in society these days, and the balance still greatly favours men - but that’s not an excuse for ignoring the times it doesn’t. The only other ones that come to mind are custody of children, and deaths/injuries at work. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/106 "2019-03-08T23:05:55Z")
I left this thread at Page 1, but in case no one’s said it already, Awesome thread title! Now carry on, you sycophantic slags! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/107 "2019-03-08T23:06:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > There are plenty of people who will jump into ANY group to tell everyone they are wrong about whatever topic that group is expert in, despite the fact they themselves are not experts. > > Politics, economics, science, any field in which there are experts, there will be no shortage of non-experts willing to “explain” how the experts are wrong. > > The fellow in the OP may very well be mansplaining, but it is not the only possible explanation for his behavior. And when that subject is about women’s bodies to a bunch of women, that is mansplaining. This isn’t an issue where the women’s gender might be irrelevant, since it’s part of the subject at hand. You have provided no alternate explanation for the guy’s action. What reason does he have to believe that “vagina” is the only correct word and women who say “vulva” are wrong? What evidence do you have that this is a regular occurrence for him? Where is your evidence that he does this on men’s issues? What reason do you have to doubt the women in the article who believe it is mansplaining? Saying it could be something else isn’t saying you have evidence it is something else. So it sure just seems like saying the women are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/108 "2019-03-08T23:10:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > When it stops being the case that men who are being abused by their wives are the ones being arrested, when they stop being at best ignored and at worst laughed at by the police when they report it, and when there exist shelters for battered men at even a tenth of the level of ones for women, I’ll be interested in arguing further about the incomplete statistics you’ve based your arguments on. > > In short, though, many injuries and deaths inflicted by women on men are not recorded as such. The situation overall is still better than it was only a few decades ago, when most domestic violence was ignored regardless of who the perpetrator was, so that’s something at least. > > I will add that this is one of the relatively few ways that men are worse off than women in society these days, and the balance still greatly favours men - but that’s not an excuse for ignoring the times it doesn’t. The only other ones that come to mind are custody of children, and deaths/injuries at work. Uh huh. So you’ve got nothing other than MRA fever dreams. I’m just glad I was here to mansplain this in case any passing women saw your not-even-anecdotal bullshit and assumed, as they must, that it was gospel truth. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/109 "2019-03-08T23:11:43Z")
What I love is that the doctor even directly explained how, even if you used “vagina” to mean the general female genitals, the article was specifically about the external aspects, and thus “vulva” is correct. So any asshole who wanted to make a descriptivist argument was shut down, too. I did, however, not find the place where he called her a “chick,” so I didn’t reference that. Is that in the full tweet session, or did I miss it because they use pictures instead of text, and thus had to actually read instead of using Ctrl-F? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/110 "2019-03-08T23:23:59Z")
This “Paint a Vulva” thread has been in my face for a while, so I thought I’d join the conversation and point out that Vulvas rarely need to be repainted because they get exceptionally durable paint jobs at the factory and are built for the rigors of Swedish winters. It appears in retrospect that I may have misunderstood what this thread was about, but nevertheless, some readers may benefit from my observation. Carry on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/111 "2019-03-08T23:24:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What I love is that the doctor even directly explained how, even if you used “vagina” to mean the general female genitals, the article was specifically about the external aspects, and thus “vulva” is correct. So any asshole who wanted to make a descriptivist argument was shut down, too. > > I did, however, not find the place where he called her a “chick,” so I didn’t reference that. Is that in the full tweet session, or did I miss it because they use pictures instead of text, and thus had to actually read instead of using Ctrl-F? It was in post 25 of this thread. [Here’s the direct link](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vjMBEtQP5iIJ:https://twitter.com/paulbullen/status/1100962216843440128+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=za). Here’s the transcribed quote: > [@](#): > > **Marni Nicholas, MD** @MarnNicholasMD Feb 27 > > Dude. No one minunderstood you. > > **Paul Bullen** > @paulbullen > > Replying to @MarniNicholasMD > > Chick, virtually everyone did. There were several newspaper headlines “Man mistakenly tries to tell women the difference between vagina and vulva.” What do you think I’ve said that you disagree with? My guess is that what you think I’ve said I have not said. Tell me. > > 7:33 PM - 27 Feb 2019 Nice. What an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/112 "2019-03-08T23:36:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Nice. What an asshole. The _correct_ term is anus. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/113 "2019-03-08T23:37:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > How dare you, there are plenty of women out there who do have exactly that experience. Are you suggesting they are abnormal in some way? > > I am kidding of course but the core point stands. If someone’s experience of menstruation was with a woman who did have such a cycle then it is hardly surprising that their calculations might reasonably start from that assumption. > That’s not a bad thing, doing the calculation is not a bad thing, being informed of the facts and revising calculations is not a bad thing. > Sticking to erroneous assumptions and refusing to listen \*is \*a bad thing. Do you really believe that there are people out there whose sole experience (presumably second-hand) of menstruation was with a woman who had her period only nine times a year, and who had no other data to corroborate that? Did said person nap during sex education class? I mean, for Goddess’s sake, the word “menstruation” comes from the Latin word for “month.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/114 "2019-03-08T23:40:42Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > The _correct_ term is anus. “Butt” is more general means the same thing to most people. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/115 "2019-03-08T23:42:28Z")
I don’t think I really understood mansplaining before this thread. Good lord, it’s painful to watch in action. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/116 "2019-03-09T00:10:28Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > “Butt” is more general means the same thing to most people. That’s just the external part. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/117 "2019-03-09T00:27:49Z")
I do need to add that before I read this thread I didn’t actually know what a vulva was. That’d make a good poll to see how many people actually know what that is without having to google it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/118 "2019-03-09T00:29:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I do need to add that before I read this thread I didn’t actually know what a vulva was. That’d make a good poll to see how many people actually know what that is without having to google it. I just generally assume that every word that starts with v has something or other to do with the female midsection. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/119 "2019-03-09T00:31:26Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I just generally assume that every word that starts with v has something or other to do with the female midsection. Vas deferens? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749/120 "2019-03-09T00:41:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Vas deferens? Vas deferens? Volvo? Verisimilitude? Eh, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/paint-a-vulva-picture-or-mansplaining-fail/830749.md?page=7)