# Painting self destructs right after sale **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566 "2018-10-06T15:50:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/41 "2018-10-07T14:38:06Z")
The article in The New York Times mentioned other hints that Sotheby’s perhaps knew that something was up. The frame was unusually thick and heavy, and the auction house would normally have carefully examined the piece prior to putting it up for sale. (I think they may even remove paintings from their frames to examine them in more detail.) The Times article pointed out that pictures are normally displayed on a podium while this was hanging on the wall. (Take a look at [this article](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2138678/Edvard-Munch-The-Scream-painting-fetches-119m-Sothebys-auction.html) from The Daily Mail showing Edvard Munch’s The Scream at auction. The painting in its frame is held by the top and bottom. If they had done that in this case, the slot on the bottom would have been blocked.) Lastly, this was the last lot sold in the auction. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/42 "2018-10-07T15:06:16Z")
Also, there’s the mysterious stranger getting into an altercation with the guards. It fits the narrative a little too nicely, but doesn’t really make sense if you think about it. Why would guards try to stop someone from leaving the room? I don’t think it’s illegal to leave an auction. And why would this stranger act so conspicuously? If you were going to do something like this you’d have a small transmitter or cellphone or something similar in your pocket, push a button or dial a number, or whatever and then sit there quietly. Wearing black sunglasses and immediately leaving are exactly the wrong things to do. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/43 "2018-10-07T16:32:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think they may even remove paintings from their frames to examine them in more detail. With an artist’s frame, that is not going to happen - the frame is part of the work of art, removing one from the other would be destroying the artwork. Better have a good restorer at hand. Not saying the theatre of it all isn’t suspect, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/44 "2018-10-07T17:20:31Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So it had a battery embedded for 12 years, which remained fully functional ? > > Is there an electrical engineer in this thread who can please tell us how that’s done? capacitor batteries will stay charged indefinitely and Lithium Ion batteries will stay charged for years. You’re thinking of traditional batteries which do fade sitting on the shelf. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/45 "2018-10-07T17:30:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t see how. > > The painting was initially sold _with_ the[artist’s frame](https://www.artsy.net/gene/artists-frame)containing the shredder. As such, the whole unit was purchased,\* including the potential for it to shred itself\*. He didn’t come after the fact and install a shredder into a painting someone had already purchased. > > Now, you _could_ argue that there’s a case for some sort of deception as to the nature of what was sold. But that’s also on Sotherby’s for not properly checking out all aspects of what they sell (charitably assuming they _weren’t_ aware of the shredder.) > > But at best, you’re talking a civil case for the deception, there’s no case to be made here for felony. Nothing was stolen, or, technically, destroyed. and the artwork did exactly what it was intended to do by the artist. Even if there was a legal recourse and Sotheby’s was 100% not in on it, I doubt they would take action against one of the world’s hottest artists. Plus you can’t buy publicity like this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/46 "2018-10-07T17:41:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > capacitor batteries will stay charged indefinitely and Lithium Ion batteries will stay charged for years. You’re thinking of traditional batteries which do fade sitting on the shelf. Assuming that when the device was constructed there was no idea if or when the painting would be auctioned, wouldn’t a receiver have a to put a constant drain on the battery in order to listen for the triggering signal? Could a battery in that frame hold enough of a charge to power the receiver for 12 years? Those aren’t rhetorical questions. I genuinely don’t know and I’m hoping that you or somebody here does. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/47 "2018-10-07T17:46:58Z")
And remember that you can’t use current battery technology; it has to be battery technology from 12 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/48 "2018-10-07T17:48:51Z")
Perhaps Banksy or one of his confederates was able to get close enough to the frame to turn on the receiver prior to the auction? But I’m wondering about the shredder itself. I would have started with a commercially available one, but the picture looked wider than letter-size paper, and most shredders here in the US are sized for letter-sized paper. Your choices are even more limited if you’re looking for a commercially-available battery-powered shredder. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/49 "2018-10-07T18:32:35Z")
I would think that the receiver wouldn’t have to be very powerful. Could the receiver be powered by a camouflaged solar cell? A separate battery would then power the shredder and wouldn’t be drained until the proper signal was received and the shredder activated. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/50 "2018-10-07T22:58:45Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > To answer my own question, according to Vice the painting was acquired by Sotheby’s in 2006. So, if that’s correct, and considering the value of the painting, did he just commit a felony? > [Banksy Reveals How He Shredded That Painting in New Video](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw9xgy/a-banksy-painting-self-destructed-after-being-auctioned-for-dollar11-million-vgtrn) I confess my art ignorance. I don’t understand the 12 year gap between sale and acquisition by Sotheby. do they have a warehouse of stuff that they sit on until they think it’s elevated to paying art? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/51 "2018-10-07T23:17:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I confess my art ignorance. I don’t understand the 12 year gap between sale and acquisition by Sotheby. do they have a warehouse of stuff that they sit on until they think it’s elevated to paying art? I’ve been wondering the same thing. Your theory seems to make sense. They buy something and then sit on it until they think they can sell it at a profit. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/52 "2018-10-07T23:23:23Z")
From what I understand, it’s actually quite common among the super-rich to buy art and just put it in storage. For example, there is supposedly [tens of billions of dollars worth of art in storage in Geneva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Freeport). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/53 "2018-10-08T03:24:20Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So it had a battery embedded for 12 years, which remained fully functional ? > > Is there an electrical engineer in this thread who can please tell us how that’s done? I needed to change the batteries in my college calculator after 15 years. They were the silver disks type. Those also do not corrode and leak when they get old. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/54 "2018-10-08T05:53:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Thank you for the kind words mhendo. This post is pure art. Bows. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/55 "2018-10-08T09:59:00Z")
It stopped half way down. I thought that was a kind of art/marketing BS, making an only artistic statement while actually adding value. But now I’ve also got the possibility that /the battery went flat while only half finished./ Which would be a lovely meta-meta statement- the art tried to destroy itself, but it failed because of it’s intrinsic limited lifetime… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/56 "2018-10-08T13:07:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But I’m wondering about the shredder itself. I would have started with a commercially available one, but the picture looked wider than letter-size paper, and most shredders here in the US are sized for letter-sized paper. Your choices are even more limited if you’re looking for a commercially-available battery-powered shredder. From the video, it looks like a custom thing with what looked like scalpel or craft knife blades. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/57 "2018-10-08T13:39:58Z")
In the linked video in the OP, starting about 9 seconds in, there’s a still shot of the intact painting in a very different frame. So when was it moved to the shredder frame? Clearly & obviously a stunt that Sotheby’s was in on. To paraphrase the great art critic Denis Leary “So, if some Houdini wants to destroy a couple swirls of paint… that are really only important to some very silly rich people… I don’t really give a damn.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/58 "2018-10-08T15:16:47Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > In the linked video in the OP, starting about 9 seconds in, there’s a still shot of the intact painting in a very different frame. So when was it moved to the shredder frame? Clearly & obviously a stunt that Sotheby’s was in on. > > To paraphrase the great art critic Denis Leary “So, if some Houdini wants to destroy a couple swirls of paint… that are really only important to some very silly rich people… I don’t really give a damn.” The art world is being played for chumps. but they want to be, so everyone is happy. I even get to be happy - I’m laughing at them all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/59 "2018-10-08T17:51:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > he’s not exactly subtle is he? I find his work rather obvious and banal, like he never left the sixth-form. That’s not even his final form! ---
**Author:** ![wahsahzii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@wahsahzii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wahsahzii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566/60 "2018-10-09T04:30:08Z")
Magic Christian, he has seen it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/painting-self-destructs-right-after-sale/822566.md?page=4)