# Pair of PC Questions from Ignorant Mac Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 19, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492 "2001-09-19T00:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/1 "2001-09-19T00:21:00Z")
I like to play with other operating systems…good geeky fun and useful in understanding computers in general and learning how the other side lives, etc. OK…Modern Multibooting for 100, Alec…OS Loader gives me a list of possible Microsoft-flavored operating systems to boot from. I currently have a choice of NT or Win2K. Unfortunately, the pick list says I have a choice of NT or Win2K or Win NT Setup or Microsoft Windows or NT or Win NT Setup. Anyone know how I pull the obsolete and redundant items from the list? Ummm…Ancient History for 200, please…I have Windows for Workgroups (3.11) and hey, guess what? It didn’t ship with TCP/IP as a networking protocol! (oops). OK, where the heck do I download a TCP stack for Windows 3.11? Thanks, folks! ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/2 "2001-09-19T00:46:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I have Windows for Workgroups (3.11) and hey, guess what? It didn’t ship with TCP/IP as a networking protocol! (oops). OK, where the heck do I download a TCP stack for Windows 3.11? I used to use Trumpet Winsock for Win 3.11, but i wonder why you would still want to use 3.11 🙂 more info at: [http://help.earthlink.net/techsupport/dialers/win3x/trumpet/menu.html](http://help.earthlink.net/techsupport/dialers/win3x/trumpet/menu.html) and [http://learning.lib.vt.edu/wintcpip/trumpwsk.html](http://learning.lib.vt.edu/wintcpip/trumpwsk.html) the rest of your question made no sense to me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/3 "2001-09-19T07:44:20Z")
TCP/IP is in the wfw 3.11 that I have (I think). c:\boot.ini (which will generally be a hidden system file) has all of your boot options. You’ll have to change the file permissions before you can edit it. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/4 "2001-09-20T02:55:36Z")
engineer\_comp\_geek, I have no such file at that location, invisible or otherwise. xash, I downloaded Trumpet but it appears to be a PPP dialer. Does it also install a TCP stack? (I don’t need PPP, my TCP connection will be DHCP Ethernet). Incidentally, the Trumpet installer just keeps reintroducing me to that brave Microsoft military hero, General Protection Fault ☹ ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/5 "2001-09-20T04:03:15Z")
WFW 3.11 did ship with a full featured TCP/IP stack, but you had to add it to the install. Not sure if you can get it anymore, however. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/6 "2001-09-20T09:51:51Z")
yes, it does install a tcp/ip stack. you can’t connect to the ppp protocol without a tcp/ip stack. but now that we know more about what you’re trying to do, maybe trumpet wisock mightn’t be your answer. Try these, if you’re looking to connect via ethernet: Download the MS TCP/IP stack for WFW 3.11 from here : [http://support.microsoft.com/download/support/mslfiles/TCP32B.EXE](http://support.microsoft.com/download/support/mslfiles/TCP32B.EXE) Then read up a bit on the following sites: [TCP/IP-32 3.11b for Windows for Workgroups](http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q122/5/44.ASP) [A Step-by-Step visual guide](http://home.nycap.rr.com/wlarmon/netinfo/wfwgtcp.htm) [Choosing DHCP](http://telecom.njit.edu/telecom/tcpip_stack.html) [WinGate for WFW 3.11](http://www.voyager.co.nz/~creative/special/sam/wg3a.htm) Other helpful sites : [http://www.resnet.ubc.ca/support/wfw311/](http://www.resnet.ubc.ca/support/wfw311/) [http://www.resnet.gatech.edu/setup/win31/](http://www.resnet.gatech.edu/setup/win31/) ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/7 "2001-09-20T12:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*engineer\_comp\_geek, I have no such file at that location, invisible or otherwise. > \*\* Are you sure? I’m not familiar with Win2K but I was pretty sure it used boot.ini just like NT. Can you try going to Start…Run and typing “notepad c:\boot.ini” and see if it confirms that no such file exists. The info above for win3.11 is correct. MS supplied a tcp/ip stack for it. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/8 "2001-09-20T12:49:25Z")
Thanks profusely, diku! Thanks to the rest of you folks as well. If you ever have any Mac or FileMaker questions, feel free to ask! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/9 "2001-09-20T12:51:02Z")
dylan, I meant for Windows 3.11 not for Win2K. ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/10 "2001-09-20T13:11:21Z")
Ahh…I see. The boot.ini is for removing your extra boot entries on the Win2k/NT machine. Just delete the ones you don’t want. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/11 "2001-09-22T17:39:32Z")
Hi, and thanks again to all the folks who have been helping me. Note the tense. I already had the drivers for the NIC but Win311 doesn’t want to install them except in conjunction with a protocol, so these need to be installed concurrently with TCP/IP. I now have the TCP/IP drivers for 3.11 from Microsoft’s site. The TCP drivers came as a self-extracting (exe) archive, so I first named a new directory and tossed the exe file in there and then ran it, extracting the component files to the same directory. Later, when the intall attempt yielded the error messages I’m about to describe, I copied all those files to a floppy instead of pointing the Network control panel dialog to the directory I’d created on the C drive. Same results either way ☹ 1. During the course of the dual install (NIC + TCP), the following error message appeared first: > [@](#): > > The file DNR.EXE, which is required in order to install this driver, is not available on the network. Your system does not have permission to copy the file to the network. See your system or network administrator for assistance. > > To continue installing the driver, choose OK. > To quit installing the driver, choose Cancel. This message was repeated for the following files as well, in this sequence: MSTCPIP.HLP READTCP!.TXT TCPOVER.HLP TCPSETUP.DLL TCPSETUP.HLP VBAPI.386 VSOCKETS.386 WIN\_SOCK.DLL WINSOCK.DLL WSAHDAPP.EXE WSOCKETS.DLL Every one of the above-mentioned files were among those extracted from the self-extracting EXE archive, and were first located to a directory I’d created on the C drive and then were placed on the floppy (A drive). In both cases the OEMSETUP.INF file was in the folder along with these files. 1. At the conclusion of the install attempt, the following error message appeared: > [@](#): > > The Digital Semiconductor 21041 based Ethernet Controller adapter and the Microsoft TCP/IP protocol cannot be installed. > > Setup Error 320: You have selected a real-mode protocol. Your network card has been set up to use only protected-mode protocols. Use the Driver Type setting to set up your network card to work with both real- and protected-mode protocols. OK, I’m going back under the hood to see if I can figure out how to install the NIC separately from the installation of the protocol, and then bring up this elusive Driver Type setting. But any advice would be appreciated in the mean time. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/12 "2001-09-23T20:14:29Z")
OK, ignore the first error message. I have fixed that problem. No more complaints about missing files. I’m still unable to figure out how to modify or differently install the DEC NIC driver as a real mode rather than protected mode device. There is no button or dialog named “Driver Type”, and no obvious other place from which to make this distinction. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/13 "2001-09-23T20:35:18Z")
AHunter3 out of curiosity and just so I’m clear on your scenario is this an Intel based machine you’re doing this on or your Mac running an emualtor? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pair-of-pc-questions-from-ignorant-mac-guy/82492/14 "2001-09-23T23:40:21Z")
Virtual PC 3.0 running on a Mac PowerBook. I obtained inforamtion about the “hardware specs” of the “PC” that is emulated in software from Connectix. I now have the driver for the DEC 21041 installed, and NetBEUI as the default protocol running on it. Is there something else I need to ask them regarding configuring the card for real mode as well as (or instead of) protected mode?