# Pakistan - better check your spelling. And then check it again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281 "2011-10-11T10:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/1 "2011-10-11T10:56:35Z")
To the seemingly unending series of incidents demonstrating that barbarism (in the guise of fundamentalist Islam) is alive and thriving in Pakistan, we can add the following: [a 13-year-old Christian girl committed the apparently unpardonable sin of making a spelling mistake](http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1067390). More specifically, in writing out a poem to the Prophet, she made the totally plausible error of adding an extra stroke to the Urdu script for the word ‘praise’ thereby changing it to read ‘curse’ (see the graphic in the link for what I mean by ‘plausible’). The consequences of this obviously innocent error have been grave for her and her family. She has been expelled from her school (yes, expelled!) and, though it seems beyond belief, her mother has lost her job and her family evicted from her home. There is nothing I can write, and I suppose there is nothing we can do, to change what’s happened in this girl’s case. So, I guess you can file this under ‘RO’ if you want. That being said, it won’t change the fact that so long as the type of events described in the link are allowed to occur, how can the US’s ongoing support (financial and otherwise) of Pakistan be justified? It can’t. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/2 "2011-10-11T12:14:44Z")
What grammar Nazi assholes. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/3 "2011-10-11T12:43:58Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > To the seemingly unending series of incidents demonstrating that barbarism (in the guise of fundamentalist Islam) is alive and thriving in Pakistan, we can add the following: [a 13-year-old Christian girl committed the apparently unpardonable sin of making a spelling mistake](http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1067390). More specifically, in writing out a poem to the Prophet, she made the totally plausible error of adding an extra stroke to the Urdu script for the word ‘praise’ thereby changing it to read ‘curse’ (see the graphic in the link for what I mean by ‘plausible’). The consequences of this obviously innocent error have been grave for her and her family. > > She has been expelled from her school (yes, expelled!) and, though it seems beyond belief, her mother has lost her job and her family evicted from her home. > > There is nothing I can write, and I suppose there is nothing we can do, to change what’s happened in this girl’s case. So, I guess you can file this under ‘RO’ if you want. That being said, it won’t change the fact that so long as the type of events described in the link are allowed to occur, how can the US’s ongoing support (financial and otherwise) of Pakistan be justified? It can’t. On the other hand, I bet she won’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/4 "2011-10-11T12:59:48Z")
As much as I am for religious freedom, that is not a mistake which can be made easily especially, since “Naat” rarely appears in written text, except as a heading and “Lanaat” can and does. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/5 "2011-10-11T13:15:02Z")
The fact is, if they wanted her to respect Islam, they have done exactly the opposite -only make her fear and hate it. The article even mentions this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/6 "2011-10-11T13:17:13Z")
Tragic. But, it was more than adding a stroke. She transposed two letters and added a third (which could be considered a stroke). I guess she won’t be entering any spelling bees in the future. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/7 "2011-10-11T13:18:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As much as I am for religious freedom, that is not a mistake which can be made easily especially, since “Naat” rarely appears in written text, except as a heading and “Lanaat” can and does. So you think she did it on purpose? Why would she do that? And do you believe her whole family should be punished to such an extreme? Is Islam so fragile that a single penstroke can bring it crashing down? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/8 "2011-10-11T13:36:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As much as I am for religious freedom, that is not a mistake which can be made easily especially, since “Naat” rarely appears in written text, except as a heading and “Lanaat” can and does. Good enough for me, counselor. Off with her hands! ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/9 "2011-10-11T14:10:46Z")
maybe 13-year old Christian girls have no business going to Muslim schools in Pakistan. Just saying… There are also more serious threats to being a Christian girl in Pakistan than spelling mistakes. E.g. [The Cutting Edge News](http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=692&pageid=89&pagename=Features) > [@](#): > > According to Aftab Alexander Mughal, of Minorities Concern of Pakistan, Saba Younis, 13 years old, and Anila, 10 years old, sisters and Christians, were kidnapped on June 26 by a Muslim man Muhammad Arif Bajwa and then forcibly converted to Islam. When the matter came before the court, Main Naeem Sardar, District and Sessions Judge Muzaffargarh, on July 12, ordered that the girls are not to be remanded to their Christian parents because the girls are Muslim now. > > The father of the girls, Younis Masih, filed an appeal to the high court where Muslim lawyer Rashid Rehman pleaded his case. The court did not believe that the girls accepted Islam by their own free will; therefore, the girls were sent to a ‘darul aman’ in order to be relieved of pressure on the part of Muslims. The girls will again appear in court on Aug. 4 and the case will then be decided according to the girls’ statement. > … > When Masih went to Gill to demand his daughters back Gill refused to let them go. Gill, though, threatened Masih and said that now the girls had accepted Islam they could not return to their Christian family. Ashfaq Fateh, a Christian social worker from Toba Tek Singh, told Minorities Concern of Pakistan that Gill warned Masih that if he filed a case against him, his family would be killed. He also claimed that he could not be caught by the police or found guilty by any court. > … > This is the second time, that Christian girls from this area have been kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam and then made to marry a Muslim man without their consent. > In another incident about six months ago, Jamila Akhtar – a Christian woman from the same village - was kidnapped in a same area and sent to Karachi, the financial capital of Pakistan. The police did not help to find the missing woman and her aggrieved family is still awaiting her return. Her whereabouts are currently unknown to them. > > Although there are many such incidents in the cities and especially in the villages in which girls of poor families are kidnapped by powerful people, it is easier to kidnap Christian, Hindu or Sikh girls, forcefully convert them to Islam, and then make them marry a Muslim man. > > In such incidents, religious minorities generally struggle alone without the support of the authorities. The police and majority of the local Muslim community does not support non-Muslim families saying that when a girl has accepted Islam she can not go back to her non-Muslim parents. Many cases of kidnapping of Christians girls in Punjab and Hindu girls in Singh have been reported by human rights groups but very few get media attention. Just say no to pakistanophobia! Hate is not cool. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/10 "2011-10-11T15:56:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Tragic. But, it was more than adding a stroke. She transposed two letters and added a third (which could be considered a stroke). I guess she won’t be entering any spelling bees in the future. It very well could be as simple as a single stroke. What you see in the picture in the article are two words that look very very similar. There are differences such as 1. an extra line in the middle 2. an elongated line at the end 3. a transposal of dots over the word. So different, yes, but how different? We obviously can’t see what she wrote but I can easily imagine it to be a word without any dots above at all. I don’t know Arabic but I know Hebrew and in Hebrew you can write a word literally without any vowel markers which are above and below the word, trusting your reader to fill those in. If the same goes for Arabic, the dots may not have been in her word at all. Then there’s the elongated line at the end. How elongated? Compared to what? It looks to be 100% of the length of the other lines but if it’s 50% of the length is it “praise” or “curse” Only one way to know! That extra line. That’s the key. So yeah, I could very easily imagine this entire thing happened because someone just learning Arabic put a single extra line in her word. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/11 "2011-10-11T16:14:13Z")
Yeah, but Christians… {fill in standard _tu quoque_ here} ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/12 "2011-10-11T16:30:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Tragic. But, it was more than adding a stroke. She transposed two letters and added a third (which could be considered a stroke). I guess she won’t be entering any spelling bees in the future. I guess that makes it okay, then. Besides, it’s just part of their culture. Who are we to judge? Besides, Americans are worse. Blah blah blah. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/13 "2011-10-11T16:35:33Z")
The opinions expressed in the “Comments” section of the Toronto Star article are almost as outrageous as what happened to this girl. Even worse is the number of Star Readers who are voting to express their support for those sentiments. Just one example: > [@Toronto Star reader](#): > > It’s Time To STOP Muslim immigration to the west NOW! What is going to stop this type of insanity from being forced on us in the future? I mean prayer rooms in our public schools is only the beginning. Enough is enough…" The comment above has an 87 percent “agree with” rating. If you’re interested in seeing more of the comments, [click here for a direct link](http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1067390--pakistani-child-expelled-for-blasphemous-spelling-error?bn=1#comments). ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/14 "2011-10-11T16:37:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As much as I am for religious freedom, that is not a mistake which can be made easily especially, since “Naat” rarely appears in written text, except as a heading and “Lanaat” can and does. And a thirteen-year old would have such spelling experience/intuition? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/15 "2011-10-11T17:26:40Z")
I love how people are arguing whether or not she intended to do this on purpose, or if it was a spelling mistake. Either way, Pakistan is a cruel, intolerant, woman-hating country. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/16 "2011-10-11T17:46:49Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I love how people are arguing whether or not she intended to do this on purpose, or if it was a spelling mistake. > > Either way, Pakistan is a cruel, intolerant, woman-hating country. Yeah I was about to say - even if it _were_ done on purpose, she should be able to curse “The Prophet” all she wants. In fact, I’m going to do it _for her_ just because there are people who sadly live in parts of the world where they aren’t allowed to express themselves freely. Pakistani government: if you’re reading this, fuck “The Prophet”. Fuck him up the ass with a rusty fork. There. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/17 "2011-10-11T18:09:24Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > maybe 13-year old Christian girls have no business going to Muslim schools in Pakistan. Just saying… > > There are also more serious threats to being a Christian girl in Pakistan than spelling mistakes. E.g. [The Cutting Edge News](http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=692&pageid=89&pagename=Features) > > Just say no to pakistanophobia! Hate is not cool. :rolleyes: I think the Government acted with a lot of wisdom. The girl and her mother live in an areas where tensions are high, not far from areas which have seen heavy fighting in recent years between militants and Security Forces, and where militants have targeted minority communities. She could have been a target, transfering her mother to a different province was the right to to do. You on the other hand, are an idiot. [QUOTE=Enderw24] It very well could be as simple as a single stroke. What you see in the picture in the article are two words that look very very similar. There are differences such as 1. an extra line in the middle 2. an elongated line at the end 3. a transposal of dots over the word. So different, yes, but how different? We obviously can’t see what she wrote but I can easily imagine it to be a word without any dots above at all. I don’t know Arabic but I know Hebrew and in Hebrew you can write a word literally without any vowel markers which are above and below the word, trusting your reader to fill those in. If the same goes for Arabic, the dots may not have been in her word at all. Then there’s the elongated line at the end. How elongated? Compared to what? It looks to be 100% of the length of the other lines but if it’s 50% of the length is it “praise” or “curse” Only one way to know! That extra line. That’s the key. So yeah, I could very easily imagine this entire thing happened because someone just learning Arabic put a single extra line in her word. [/QUOTE] Yes, people are all experts on languages they do not know. 1. The language in question is not Arabic, its Urdu. The national language. A language every student will know, years before they reach her class. 2. The words are quite differnent. Its not just a question of “longer lines” or “dots”. The offending word has 4 letters, while the other one has three, and with one letter being the second to last in the offending word, and the first in the other word and one additional word at the begining which is the “L” sound. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/18 "2011-10-11T18:12:59Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Either way, Pakistan is a cruel, intolerant, woman-hating country. [These](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Robert_Cornelius) people [might disagree](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_Bhagwandas) [with you.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hina_Rabbani_Khar) ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/19 "2011-10-11T18:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=AK84] 1. The language in question is not Arabic, its Urdu. The national language. A language every student will know, years before they reach her class. 2. The words are quite differnent. Its not just a question of “longer lines” or “dots”. The offending word has 4 letters, while the other one has three, and with one letter being the second to last in the offending word, and the first in the other word and one additional word at the begining which is the “L” sound. [/QUOTE] That’s a valid point. I know when I was in middle school, taking a stressful handwritten exam, I never accidentally misspelled a word, changing the meaning of a sentence, because who could ever misspell a sword in their native language? And it’s a good thing I didn’t, too, because if I had, it would have been only fair to ruin not just my life, but my entire family’s lives as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/20 "2011-10-11T18:19:27Z")
It’s “Catch these men”, Sean. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281.md?page=2)