# Pakistan - better check your spelling. And then check it again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281 "2011-10-11T10:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/41 "2011-10-12T15:22:14Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I have no problem at all with the concept that the local government have done an admirable job of damage control to prevent this issue escalating. > > What is depressing is that they should need to. My disdain is aimed purely at the superstitious peasants who have caused this situation. Fuck them and their beliefs. Except it was the teacher who started it by beating the girl in front of her classmates and took her to the principal who expelled her. And somebody made sure the story got out to the public. it’s not just the peasants. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/42 "2011-10-12T15:48:57Z")
We shouldn’t even be so sure the girl did anything wrong. People who hate don’t need very logical reasons for things, and they are quite willing to distort the facts. The girl may not have written “curse” in any case, or a loose slip of the pen could simply be the excuse for then teacher to make any claim desired. It would not be the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/43 "2011-10-12T16:47:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And yet no-one is being threatened with arrest, expulsion or murder. Go figure. Well, not yet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/44 "2011-10-12T19:52:34Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The fact that we’re even discussing how grave the spelling error is shows that we’re absurdly tolerant of the fucking batshit insane barbarian shit from other cultures. I suspect it’s more about how Dopers, as a whole, can’t pass up a grammar nitpick, even in languages they don’t speak. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/45 "2011-10-12T20:40:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I suspect it’s more about how Dopers, as a whole, can’t pass up a grammar nitpick, even in languages they don’t speak. Can you say that in Urdu? Preferably using the dialect spoken in Rawalpindi. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/46 "2011-10-12T21:04:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I suspect it’s more about how Dopers, as a whole, can’t pass up a grammar nitpick, even in languages they don’t speak. That’s definitely part of it, but as **drewtwo99** noted, the “gravity” or otherwise of the spelling error is crucial to determining “whether or not she intended to do this on purpose, or if it was a spelling mistake”. Obviously, the brutal and tyrannical response the student received was intolerably (and intolerantly) unjust even if she **did** deliberately write a different word instead of just accidentally misspelling the intended one. So the “accidental or intentional misspelling” question certainly has no bearing on the appropriateness of the current Pitting. But it is nonetheless a legitimate part of trying to reconstruct the precise details of the situation that inspired the Pitting. Sure, it’s an insanely obsessive nitpick of a trivial detail, but this is the Straight Dope: that’s how we roll. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/47 "2011-10-12T21:04:38Z")
To be perfektly honest, I find this whole thread to be a farse. Both sides are being fairly stoopid. On one hand, the barbaric actions of those in Palestien are, regardless of the reasoning, ridiculous–beating/protesting a little gurl for a _spelling mistake_? They’d have dragged my ass off to the guleag ages ago! But at the same time, I have no sympathie with the idiots complaining about how we are “too tolerant” of brutal cultures… So manie stoopid peepel. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/48 "2011-10-12T21:55:42Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > To be perfektly honest, I find this whole thread to be a farse. Both sides are being fairly stoopid. On one hand, the barbaric actions of those in Palestien are, regardless of the reasoning, ridiculous–beating/protesting a little gurl for a _spelling mistake_? They’d have dragged my ass off to the guleag ages ago! But at the same time, I have no sympathie with the idiots complaining about how we are “too tolerant” of brutal cultures… So manie stoopid peepel. Do you miss Algernon, Charley? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/49 "2011-10-12T22:02:53Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > To be perfektly honest, I find this whole thread to be a farse. Both sides are being fairly stoopid. On one hand, the barbaric actions of those in Palestien are, regardless of the reasoning, ridiculous–beating/protesting a little gurl for a _spelling mistake_? They’d have dragged my ass off to the guleag ages ago! But at the same time, I have no sympathie with the idiots complaining about how we are “too tolerant” of brutal cultures… So manie stoopid peepel. How about you elaborate with some reasons, genius, instead of just throwing around insults? Do you deny that there’s a significant portion of people in the western world who are essentially apologist for all non-western cultures? They go out of their way to tell us that we can’t judge brutal, primitive, fucking retarded cultures because all cultures are beautiful and unique snowflake and all are equally valid and oh I’m sure we have our equivelants, etc. etc. Or do you think it’s stupid to call out those people for being assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/50 "2011-10-12T22:25:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do you deny that there’s a significant portion of people in the western world who are essentially apologist for all non-western cultures? They go out of their way to tell us that we can’t judge brutal, primitive, fucking retarded cultures because all cultures are beautiful and unique snowflake and all are equally valid and oh I’m sure we have our equivelants, etc. etc. > > Or do you think it’s stupid to call out those people for being assholes? I can’t speak for **Budget Player Cadet** (and wouldn’t care to try, in case his spelling turned out to be contagious ;)). But I think it’s fairly obvious that nobody **in this thread** so far is being “essentially apologist for all non-western cultures” or telling us that “we can’t judge brutal, primitive, fucking retarded cultures”. Therefore, complaints about apologist assholes “being too tolerant of brutal cultures” are pretty much irrelevant to the current thread. Or as **BPC** might say, they are “stoopid”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/51 "2011-10-12T22:42:27Z")
But, as I said, we are debating the minutia of the exact detail of her error, as if somehow her guilt or level of transgression were a serious issue here. The only reason we’d be doing that is to evaluate how appropriate the response is, yes? I’m saying if the response can even be anything other than “those backwards, barbarian, brutal assholes”, we’re far too tolerant of this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/52 "2011-10-12T22:43:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do you deny that there’s a significant portion of people in the western world who are essentially apologist for all non-western cultures? They go out of their way to tell us that we can’t judge brutal, primitive, fucking retarded cultures because all cultures are beautiful and unique snowflake and all are equally valid and oh I’m sure we have our equivelants, etc. etc. I’m personally more than willing to deny that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/53 "2011-10-12T22:56:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But, as I said, we are debating the minutia of the exact detail of her error, as if somehow her guilt or level of transgression were a serious issue here. The only reason we’d be doing that is to evaluate how appropriate the response is, yes? Nope. As I pointed out about seven posts ago, the reason we’re debating the minutiae of the exact detail of her error is because we’re obsessive nitpickers dangerously addicted to factual accuracy and precision. In other words, proud members of the SDMB. [QUOTE=SenorBeef] I’m saying if the response can even be anything other than “those backwards, barbarian, brutal assholes”, we’re far too tolerant of this shit. [/QUOTE] And I’m saying that nobody in this thread is disagreeing with that response; in fact, many of us have explicitly stated our own versions of the exact same response. So you can stop worrying about hypothetical apologist assholes who are “far too tolerant of this shit”, and let the rest of us get on with arguing about exactly what precise orthographical errors or ambiguities may plausibly have been involved in the original incident that led to this shit. Because this is the Straight Dope, and it’s what we do. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/54 "2011-10-13T04:22:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you say that in Urdu? Preferably using the dialect spoken in Rawalpindi. Here you go. Mujhay shuck hai, kay zaida yeh baat hai kay Doper, qvaid ki choti see ghalitian nahin choor saktay, beshak vo zaban ho jiss ko vo boltain na houn. I suspect it’s more about how Dopers, as a whole, can’t pass up a grammar nitpick, even in languages they don’t speak. As it is, the language spoken in Rawalpindi is not Urdu, its Potohari. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/55 "2011-10-13T04:54:20Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > How about you elaborate with some reasons, genius, instead of just throwing around insults? > > Do you deny that there’s a significant portion of people in the western world who are essentially apologist for all non-western cultures? They go out of their way to tell us that we can’t judge brutal, primitive, fucking retarded cultures because all cultures are beautiful and unique snowflake and all are equally valid and oh I’m sure we have our equivelants, etc. etc. > > Or do you think it’s stupid to call out those people for being assholes? Well, first thing to note: it was a joke post. I hope this was plentifully obvious, otherwise I’m obviously not as well-known around here as I thought. I do not deny this “apologist” grouping. I deny that they are as extreme as you make them out to be. As others have pointed out, much of the opposition to such behavior is coming from _within_ Pakistan. Not exactly an excuse, but still something. Furthermore, I don’t really know any apologists whose line of reasoning is “this culture gets a pass because it’s unique and different” rather than “this culture gets a pass because of its unfortunate situation and because there’s not much you can do about it”. i.e. They’re not happy about it but they know you can’t really change anything there anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/56 "2011-10-13T05:51:27Z")
The fun thing about an authoritarian society like that is it didn’t have to actually happen. The teacher may just hate the student or her family, for whatever reason, and just made it up to fuck their lives up. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/57 "2011-10-13T09:46:04Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The fun thing about an authoritarian society like that is it didn’t have to actually happen. The teacher may just hate the student or her family, for whatever reason, and just made it up to fuck their lives up. Newsflash. Pakistan has had a democratic government for at least the last 10 years. And the newspaper which first broke the story, Express Tribune, is owned ultimatly by that friend of dictators, the New York Times. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/58 "2011-10-13T13:11:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Newsflash. Pakistan has had a democratic government for at least the last 10 years. Yeahbut, “society” does not necessarily equal “national government”. Isn’t this schoolgirl out in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa someplace fairly poor and radicalized compared to the average social conditions in Pakistan? Isn’t it fair to say that she’s living in an authoritarian society (or at least was until the feds relocated her due to concerns about this situation)? I’ve got colleagues and students who are Pakistani and I would never be so foolish as to diss the whole country because parts of it are dominated by bloodthirsty dictatorial wackjobs. But I think it’s reasonable to note that the bloodthirsty dictatorial wackjobs are a real problem in the areas where they’re dominant, and that they have a severe negative impact on the rights and quality of life of those around them. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/59 "2011-10-13T14:34:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeahbut, “society” does not necessarily equal “national government”. Isn’t this schoolgirl out in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa someplace fairly poor and radicalized compared to the average social conditions in Pakistan? > > Isn’t it fair to say that she’s living in an authoritarian society (or at least was until the feds relocated her due to concerns about this situation)? > > I’ve got colleagues and students who are Pakistani and I would never be so foolish as to diss the whole country because parts of it are dominated by bloodthirsty dictatorial wackjobs. But I think it’s reasonable to note that the bloodthirsty dictatorial wackjobs are a real problem in the areas where they’re dominant, and that they have a severe negative impact on the rights and quality of life of those around them. If it was an authoritarian society, you would most likely have never heard of this case. It would not have been in the newspaper and on TV. Foreign newspapers would not have picked it up three weeks after the event. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281/60 "2011-10-13T19:49:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If it was an authoritarian society, you would most likely have never heard of this case. It would not have been in the newspaper and on TV. Foreign newspapers would not have picked it up three weeks after the event. If by “it” you mean the society of Pakistan as a whole, then I completely agree with you. If instead you mean the apparently quite radicalized fundamentalist local culture in which this girl was living, and in which the mere use of an offensive word (probably not even deliberately) seems to have resulted in serious hazards to her safety if not her life, then I’m not sure I see where you’re coming from. How is trying to impose that kind of harshly rigid “radical-Islamist political correctness” on schoolchildren and enforce it with menaces of violence **not** authoritarian? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-better-check-your-spelling-and-then-check-it-again/599281.md?page=4)