# Pakistan: Some of Our Nuclear Material May Be Missing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607 "2007-05-03T13:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/1 "2007-05-03T13:53:54Z")
[But it’s no big deal. Honest.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6616225.stm) > [@](#): > > Pakistan’s nuclear authority has said there is no cause for concern after it published press adverts for information on “lost” radioactive material. > > The adverts urged members of the public to inform officials if they found any “lost or stolen” radioactive material. > > They were published in major Urdu-language newspapers in Pakistan. > > A spokesman for the nuclear authority said that there was a “very remote chance” that nuclear materials imported 40-50 years ago were unaccounted for. This, of course, comes from our ally in The War Against Terror (TWAT), who has given nuclear technology to the North Koreans, and made deals with those fine Taliban folks. Buckminster Fuller once said that humans were programmed for survival, it’s stories like this one, that really make me doubt it some times. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/2 "2007-05-03T14:25:07Z")
Nothing to worry about. The material was imported 40 to 50 years ago. Certainly it has passed its “Sell by” date by now! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/3 "2007-05-03T14:29:53Z")
I love how the Pakistani government asked the public to let them know if anyone finds a hunk of stray plutonium, as if they were an 8 year old girl hanging “LOST KITTEN” signs on telephone poles. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/4 "2007-05-03T14:34:15Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] I love how the Pakistani government asked the public to let them know if anyone finds a hunk of stray plutonium, as if they were an 8 year old girl hanging “LOST KITTEN” signs on telephone poles. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] $5 reward… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/5 "2007-05-03T14:42:23Z")
Answers to the name of “Fluffy.” ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/6 "2007-05-03T14:45:02Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Answers to the name of “Fluffy.” [/QUOTE] Distinguishing Features: Hairless, bleeding gums. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/7 "2007-05-03T15:39:41Z")
Somehow every country with nuclear power or weapons manages to lose some. I would think it would be hard to do. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/8 "2007-05-03T16:20:28Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Somehow every country with nuclear power or weapons manages to lose some. I would think it would be hard to do. [/QUOTE] Just losing it would be hard – but it might not be hard to have some stolen, by an insider with the right kind of access, perhaps hoping to sell the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/9 "2007-05-03T16:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Just losing it would be hard – but it might not be hard to have some stolen, by an insider with the right kind of access, perhaps hoping to sell the stuff. [/QUOTE] Or, you can have an agency of your own government give it to a political ally, while publicly claiming that such a thing could never possibly happen. That’s the way we do it. Tris ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/10 "2007-05-04T00:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Somehow every country with nuclear power or weapons manages to lose some. I would think it would be hard to do. [/QUOTE] Often lost radioactive material is only lost administratively: That’s to say that they don’t believe the material is actually gone from the storage area, but that they can’t prove it’s where it’s supposed to be, from their paperwork. The best example I can think of is from 2002 when a shut down reactor in California was reported to have lost control of a cut section of _fuel cell_. They think it’s in the storage pool, but they can’t prove it. I’m not saying that’s the case here with Pakistan’s material - you don’t put up lost signs for that, just explaining that some of the lost material in the US and other developed countries isn’t quite as lost as one might think, at first. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/11 "2007-05-04T00:37:29Z")
Wait, I think I may have it here in my pocket. Nope, sorry. Roll of quarters. No, wait, that’s … carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/12 "2007-05-04T01:43:18Z")
Ads in the paper??!! They should follow American’s lead and put pictures on milk cartons. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/13 "2007-05-04T01:50:46Z")
I think the milk companies might object. Would you buy a milk carton with a picture of radioactive material on it?.. maybe not to drink guess that would be an interesting conversation piece ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/14 "2007-05-04T02:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=boytyperanma] I think the milk companies might object. Would you buy a milk carton with a picture of radioactive material on it?.. maybe not to drink guess that would be an interesting conversation piece [/QUOTE] I dunno, do American milk companies protest about putting pictures of dead kids on their cartons? I mean, they don’t KNOW they’re dead, but you gotta figure a good number of them are. Um, I mean _bad_ number. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/15 "2007-05-04T03:04:36Z")
Before anybody gets too outraged, guess how much MUF (material unaccounted for) the Hanford PUREX processing site claims? [_The cumulative MUF, from PUREX initial operation in 1955 through December 1992, was in excess of 400 kg plutonium._](http://www.deprep.org/1994-2/tr94f22a.htm)The Savannah River Site has had several hundred kilograms (according to some sources 2-3 tonnes) of “inventory discrepencies”, and Los Alamos more than 700 kg. As **OtakuLoki** says, much of this may be administrative accounting losses or MOS (misplaced on site) losses. There are rumors that the United States has provided nuclear material for Israels nascent nuclear weapons program (and Tom Clancy, among others, made millions writing a potboiler about it) but I think that highly unlikely, even, or perhaps especially, in the depths of the Cold War. More troubling, perhaps, are nuclear reactors in the former East Bloc which are designed to produce material capable of being processed to HEU (highly enriched uranium) from decay of [sup]240[/sup]Pu. Given accessible and relatively inexpensive gas centerfuge processes it would not be beyond the means of a small nation to fabricate effective nuclear weapons without a complete test program. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/16 "2007-05-04T03:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I dunno, do American milk companies protest about putting pictures of dead kids on their cartons? I mean, they don’t KNOW they’re dead, but you gotta figure a good number of them are. Um, I mean _bad_ number. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] IIRC, they’ve stopped putting kids faces on milk cartons since they figured out that it was freaking the kids out when they saw them. **Stranger** , the Brits admitted not too long ago to being the ones to help the Israeli’s with their nuke program. IIRC there was a thread about it here. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/17 "2007-05-04T12:07:38Z")
Did they check behind the couch cushions? I sometime find my missing keys there. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/18 "2007-05-04T19:48:28Z")
Hey, at least they are open about trying to find the stuff! Has anyone turned up the 300 kg of plutonium that went bye-bye from [Los Alamos?](http://www.ieer.org/latest/pudiscrepanciesindex.html) Anytime dangerous material goes missing I want front page notices, amber alerts, skywriters and phone calls to Miss Cleo and the Psychic Friends Network! Don’t just write up a report and say, “Oops. Maybe it got mislabeled?” Hell no! Call out the Boy Scouts! Get Jack Bauer! Get f’ing Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys! ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/19 "2007-05-04T20:17:49Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] Anytime dangerous material goes missing I want front page notices, amber alerts, skywriters and phone calls to Miss Cleo and the Psychic Friends Network! Don’t just write up a report and say, “Oops. Maybe it got mislabeled?” Hell no! Call out the Boy Scouts! Get Jack Bauer! Get f’ing Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys! [/QUOTE] That may make sense with some things. But the fuel cell section I mentioned is an excellent example of why I think it’s a bit of an over-reaction to mandate that as a routine procedure. First off the danger, if someone could take that section of fuel cell to some kind of weapons lab, is very potent. The [CRUD](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalk_river_unidentified_deposits) found inside a core section would be ideal for making the “dirty bomb” that is a favorite threat for some people. That the fuel matrix is likely exposed only provides even more esoteric isotopes, in higher concentrations, than the CRUD would. Having said that, the exposure that someone would take trying to walk off with this item is such that I’m not convinced that they could do it - they’d probably make it past the gate, then fall down vomiting blood. And that’s assuming that the rad monitors on site don’t detect such a high level source moving through the facility. I’m not arguing that in all cases such dramatic responses are unwarranted - just that in many cases it’s an over-reaction. I’m also skeptical of the report you linked - it seems to me (based on a quick skim-through) that they’re basing their discrepancy claim on the assumption that all the estimates for deposited Pu are completely accurate and unassailable, while the extimates for current levels are potentially incorrect and amenable to statistical correction. I don’t think that’s a reasonable set of assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607/20 "2007-05-04T20:21:03Z")
Maybe GWB could search the Oval Office again. “Nope, not under here…” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pakistan-some-of-our-nuclear-material-may-be-missing/402607.md?page=2)