# Palestine/Israel - why not do this... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289 "2002-04-01T23:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/1 "2002-04-01T23:23:02Z")
OK, make one part a country called Palestine. Any Jews in the area can be relocated in a nice area. Make another part a country called Israel, and any non Jews not happy can be moved to a nice area of their choice too. Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/2 "2002-04-01T23:29:31Z")
How simple! Why hasn’t anyone thought of that before?!? Erm. Why don’t you go ahead and draw up the borders of your proposed nations and get back to us. 'Cos I suspect you might have some difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/3 "2002-04-01T23:37:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > \*\*OK, make one part a country called Palestine. Any Jews in the area can be relocated in a nice area. > > Make another part a country called Israel, and any non Jews not happy can be moved to a nice area of their choice too. > > Sounds good to me. \*\* The UN more-or-less did this in 1948. Both sides were cede certian terrotory. Unfortunately, rather than set up a working country, the Arabs chose to attack Israel and tried to destroy it. ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/4 "2002-04-01T23:40:40Z")
Was there not a reason why the arabs attacked? Was it just the Palestinian arabs who attacked? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/5 "2002-04-01T23:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > \*\*Was there not a reason why the arabs attacked? Was it just the Palestinian arabs who attacked? \*\* The concept of “Palestinian” is a recent construct, which did not exist in 1948. There were no “Palestinians” then. Interesting question as to why the Arabs attacked. One reason, I’ve been told, is that they expected to succeed. They had more troops. There must be more to it than that, but I do not know any more details. Anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/6 "2002-04-01T23:50:45Z")
“If you can’t share the Holy Land-nobody gets it!” ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/7 "2002-04-01T23:54:55Z")
Actually, there was an area called Palestine long before 1948. Read up on your history. Also, The Jews flooded into Israel against UN advise it’s partly their own fault. They knew the risks. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/8 "2002-04-02T00:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > \*\*Actually, there was an area called Palestine long before 1948. Read up on your history. > \*\* Yes, there certainly was an area called Palestine long before 1948. But, there were not a specific group of people called Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/9 "2002-04-02T00:16:38Z")
That matters not. You know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/10 "2002-04-02T00:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Niobium Knight \* > \*\*That matters not. You know what I mean. \*\* Sorry, I was missing your point. > [@](#): > > On May 14, 1948, the day Israel declared its independence, the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it. [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/invade48.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/invade48.html) ---
**Author:** ![Niobium\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Niobium\_Knight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Niobium_Knight)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/11 "2002-04-02T00:24:05Z")
Exactly. The Palestians where not the major players then. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/12 "2002-04-02T02:58:34Z")
No, they weren’t major players in '48, they were used as _pawns_ of the Arab League. And to a great extent they refuse to this day to realize they’ve been had. (First of all let’s just accept for the sake of the argument that in the 1948 partition plan (which BTW was nearly 50/50 and included Jerusalem as a NEUTRAL ZONE!), the inhabitants of the until-then Mandate of Palestine would be the Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians, and when the latter adopted the name “Israel” the Arabs kept the other name.) Now, what happened then was, as mentioned, the Arab League attacked, in defiance of a UN plan that was supported by both the West AND the Soviet Bloc, in the hope that there would be NO partition and NO Jewish State _at all_. (Allow me to insert my opinion that He Who Says “It’s All Or Nothing” shall not whine when he gets the “nothing”) They thought it would be a cakewalk. In the end, something like half of what would have been the Palestinian Arab State WAS occupied by the Arab armies – most of it, the West Bank. And what did the Arab League do? Did they aid and finance a new Palestine Arab State, and send money and advisors to the Palestinians (half of whose land the AL gambled with and lost?) so they could nation-build and set up their own reasonably operational Arab state? No. - Jordan ANNEXED the West Bank as a province. - Egypt only “administered” the Gaza Strip and did damn little to make any of it but a gigantic refugee camp. - Palestinian Arab displacees were DENIED citizenship in other Arab countries (notable exception: Jordan), thus remaining refugee aliens no matter where they went, and their children too. - But the Arab Powers did finance “schools” at the refugee camps to preach to the new generations that eventually they _“take back”_ ALL of Palestine (Which I think was BS and the real goal, until after '67, was that Egypt, Jordan and Syria would split the loot) In 1948 there was no “Palestinian Leadership” with either the power or the perception of legitimacy to prevent their “brothers” from “helping” them so destructively. And in the 20 years after that no Palestinian Leader willing to think in terms of “doing the best we can with what we have” and seeking a political solution to lift the people out of poverty was allowed to arise (as that would create an expectation among the Arab masses!): only those dedicated to the armed struggle vs. Israel were backed financially and ideologically. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/13 "2002-04-02T23:57:36Z")
It looks almost like Israel has boxed itself into a corner. If they pull away from Arafta’s compound now, they’ll look week, I think. They can’t very well kill him either, without looking worse. Maybe they should call a time out.“Okay, we’re goin back, just pretend this never happened…” ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/14 "2002-04-03T00:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*“If you can’t share the Holy Land-nobody gets it!” \*\* Pardon me for sounding overly simplistic, but I agree. Fact: Prior to the recent flare-up, the largest obstacle to getting a peace treaty signed was the Jerusalem issue. My proposal: Tell all sides, the world is now annexing {East & West} Jerusalem (home to the world’s 3 major religions) and making it capital of the world. UN Headquarters are being moved there and all police in the city will be wearing blue helmets. All local gov’t will be voted on and all municipal functions administered / selected the local populations. No one wins, no one loses. No one’s happy, no one’s envious. Just like taking a toy away from tow arguing siblings. Plus all the added benefits;[ul][li]No more inconsiderate diplomats illegally parking all over Manhattan[/li][li]They can convert the UN building to Luxury Housing and Walter Cronkite can move in so we don’t have to hear him bitching about the loss of his East River view anymore [/li][li]A boom to the local outlying economies construction of a new UN building would bring.[/li][li]No more long harrowing flights for west Asian, European and African diplomats[/li][li]If the UN screws it up the American UN-bashers will have added artillery in their “US out of the UN” arsenal.[/li]If the UN succeeds, the Pro-UN one-worlder’s can finally say nanny-nanny poo-poo to the above mentioned crowd.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/15 "2002-04-03T01:09:00Z")
One small nitpick… There are probably 3 **BILLION** people who don’t subscribe to what you so cavalierly refer to as ‘the 3 major religions’. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/16 "2002-04-03T01:22:16Z")
I would strongly object to Jerusalem becoming the world capital. As Jonathan said, there are many human beings who are not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. Further, it’s arrogance to put Judaism in with the “three major religions” as numerically I believe it is smaller than some of the other major world religions (Hinduism and Buddhism both?). This is of course ignoring nonreligious persons and that religion in general, in the West, is on the decline. But hey, if by ‘world’, you meant ‘some of Europe and the Middle East’, more power to ya. (I’d include us Yanks, but we have this whole government-shouldn’t-sanction-religion thing.) ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/17 "2002-04-03T01:38:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \ ***Jonathan Chance** > One small nitpick… > > There are probably 3 **BILLION** people who don’t subscribe to what you so cavalierly refer to as ‘the 3 major religions’. \*\* They don’t count unless they’re squabling over Jerusalem. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by_\*\* JohnBckWLD \*\* > Tell all sides, the world is now annexing {East & West} Jerusalem (home to the world’s 3 major religions) and making it capital of the world. UN Headquarters are being moved there and all police in the city will be wearing blue helmets. Actually the nitpick is who’s going to bell the cat? (That is, who is going to actually go up to the Israeli’s and say, “this in not yours anymore.” In addition, I’d venture to say that there would be a number of non-Jews who’d be willing to fight the UN as well as Israel to get it. But other than that, cool. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/18 "2002-04-03T01:39:20Z")
I should also point out that a Palestinian state and Jerusalem as an international city was exactly the deal the Palestinians were offered in the first place, and they chose to go to war rather than accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/19 "2002-04-03T03:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*I should also point out that a Palestinian state and Jerusalem as an international city was exactly the deal the Palestinians were offered in the first place, and they chose to go to war rather than accept it. \*\* Forgive my ignorance, but when was this? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289/20 "2002-04-03T03:56:47Z")
The original U.N. partition plan, 1948 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-israel-why-not-do-this/101289.md?page=2)