# Palestine will be destroyed, unless it fights and wins an all-out war **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2002, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840 "2002-08-01T07:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/1 "2002-08-01T07:10:32Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128512](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128512) The logic is simple. Palestine is surrounded by Arab countries that are forced by the might of the US to do nothing to prevent its destruction. There’s no chance of reaching an accomodation with moderate Israelis, because any moderate Israelis who pop up are [**jailed by the evil and oppressive Sharon regime.**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1831330.stm) Other neighbours are [**Hitler-esque and racist regimes**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/2115857.stm), like that of Israel’s Sharon. Its leaders use fear of Palestinians to help maintain power – as a way to distract their citizens from their own miserable governance. Israelis with jobs, homes and money already outnumber Palestinians by a vast margin. Israeli weapons are already far more powerful and sophisticated and becoming even more so. The United Nations is dominated by countries prejudiced against Palestine, such as the US. They will not succeed in bringing peace. In fact, they are currently avoiding responsibility, even for Palestinian areas where they have a moral responsibility to protect the Palestinian people and help them build infrastructure and lead normal lives, with dignity. The EU will not help. They continue to pay lip service to Palestine, but won’t actually go in and root out the illegal settlements peppering Palestine in the West Bank. Plus, infrastructure projects they have tried to build for Palestine [**has been ripped to pieces by the wantonly destructive and aggressive Sharon regime**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1913156.stm). In short, no negotiated settlement is possible, and the situation will only get worse, from Palestine’s POV. I am not asserting that it would be moral for Palestine to start an all-out war. I am saying that as a practical matter they are doomed under the current course. I’m very unhappy about this “solution,” but that’s how the real world looks from my POV. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/2 "2002-08-01T07:13:38Z")
While I don’t agree with your POV, at least you’re providing cites to support your view. Unlike someone else. ---
**Author:** ![taggert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@taggert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taggert)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/3 "2002-08-01T07:14:37Z")
Hey! This is the SDMB, and satire, troll posts that are parodic spasms of whooshing are frowned on around here. This is plainly satire. Won’t stand for that. No sir. Or ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/4 "2002-08-01T07:30:11Z")
Calling me a troll, **Taggert**? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/5 "2002-08-01T07:30:26Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Parody threads belong in the BBQ Pit, where I will move this to. But at least you did include a link to the thread being parodied. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/6 "2002-08-01T08:02:20Z")
May I ask the reason for this particular parody thread. I didn’t see anything wrong with **december’s** thread. Sure you may disagree with his POV, but isn’t that the purpose for Great Debates, to debate. So get in there and debate him. Do we really need a parody thread for everthing people disagree with. Parody threads can be really funny if used to slam an obvious troll, but IMO, this is not such a case. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/7 "2002-08-01T08:05:45Z")
You act as if the entire Middle-East is completely pro-Israel… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/8 "2002-08-01T08:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fugazi \* > \*\*May I ask the reason for this particular parody thread. I didn’t see anything wrong with **december’s** thread. Sure you may disagree with his POV, but isn’t that the purpose for Great Debates, to debate. So get in there and debate him. Do we really need a parody thread for everthing people disagree with. > \*\* What’s to debate? He’s not going to listen. Parody threads are getting old, but this one is well deserved, IMHO. But I’d be for a moratorium of three months for parody threads. in fact… > [@](#): > > \*\* > SDMB will be destroyed, unless it fights and wins an all-out war against parody threads!!\*\* > > The logic is simple. The SDMB is surrounded by Parodies that are forced by the might of the Posters to do nothing to prevent its destruction. There’s no chance of reaching an accomodation with moderate Moderators, because any moderate Moderators who pop up are jailed by the evil and oppressive Troll regime. > > ::snip:: > > In short, no negotiated settlement is possible, and the situation will only get worse, from the SDMB’s POV. > > I am not asserting that it would be moral for SDMB to start an all-out war. I am saying that as a practical matter they are doomed under the current course. I’m very unhappy about this “solution,” but that’s how the real world looks from my POV. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/9 "2002-08-01T08:18:24Z")
What’s to debate? True, you probably won’t change december’s mind on anything, but he’s not the only one reading that thread. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/10 "2002-08-01T10:48:07Z")
This is a parody-esque debate thread _intended_ for Great Debates as a legitimate answer (and alternative) to **december’s** thread. I wanted to start this afresh as a new thread because it seemed the best way to demonstrate a 180 degrees different perspective, IMO equally valid as **december’s** , if not more so. Maybe I should have posted it inside **december’s** thread, but it felt more balanced to post it as a new and separate debate. If you feel it should be in the Pit, then fair enough. But the points in the OP are not actually a joke, they are serious, factual points. Personally I feel it sends the wrong message to have this one in the Pit, while the original atrocity is still in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/11 "2002-08-01T10:56:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*Calling me a troll, **Taggert**? \*\* Istara, I completly disagree with you on every single point, but…trust me on this…there’s **NO** doubt in my (and I’d guess most Doper’s minds) that Taggert calling you a troll is a textbook case of projection. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/12 "2002-08-01T11:03:03Z")
**istara** : Well, it seemed that the way this one was phrased was a direct “take off” on **december** ’s thread. Certainly, if Poster A is arguing for one position in Great Debates based on certain assertions or assumptions, it’s reasonable for Poster B to argue that, based on what are maintained to be equally credible assertions or assumptions, the exact opposite view should be taken. If you want to post something like this in **december** ’s thread, that would certainly be kosher. (Or halal, as the case may be.) And if you want to start a separate thread arguing about some aspect of Middle Eastern politics from a Palestinian or Arab point of view, well, hey, I suppose there’s always room in Great Debates for one more Middle East thread. I think that this thread, as it stands, will inevitably be taken as a “parody” thread and reacted to accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/13 "2002-08-01T13:11:44Z")
OK - no problem - next time I’ll post in a thread directly, or post directly in Pit. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/14 "2002-08-02T19:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128512](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128512) > There’s no chance of reaching an accomodation with moderate Israelis, because any moderate Israelis who pop up are [**jailed by the evil and oppressive Sharon regime.**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1831330.stm) > \*\* You mean due process as opposed to simply shooting them down in the streets? [http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nytp/20020402/344109&.bail=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2Frd%3Fr%3Dpalestinians+informers](http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nytp/20020402/344109&.bail=http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dpalestinians+informers) ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestine-will-be-destroyed-unless-it-fights-and-wins-an-all-out-war/121840/15 "2002-08-02T19:56:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Finagle \* > \*\*You mean due process as opposed to simply shooting them down in the streets? [http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nytp/20020402/344109&.bail=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2Frd%3Fr%3Dpalestinians+informers](http://premium.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nytp/20020402/344109&.bail=http%3a%2f%2fpremium.news.yahoo.com%2frd%3fr%3dpalestinians+informers) \*\* Thank you **Finagle** , for pointing out an instance of Palestinians killing Palestinians. BTW, **Istara** , in trying to force a parallel, you mis-represented your cite. The link from your underlined phrase, “jailed by the evil and oppressive Sharon regime,” says they were _not_ jailed. > [@](#): > > The army has stripped some of them of their ranks. > > But it is wary of the intense media spotlight and is careful not to draw more negative publicity by meting out the ultimate sanction for disobeying orders - prison.