# Palestinians living with Israelis **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859 "2007-12-05T00:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/1 "2007-12-05T00:14:31Z")
Most of what I hear about Palestinians are the ones in the Gaza Strip or West Bank. But I’m sure there are Palestinians living in other areas, like Haifa or Tel Aviv. I have to assume they’re not all militant, but are just trying to raise a family, nurture a career, etc. Do they pretty much co-mingle with the Jewish Israelis? Do classrooms have both Jewish and Palestinian students? Law firms with partners from each group? Cashiers at McDonalds? Neighbors on the cul-de-sac, etc? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/2 "2007-12-05T00:33:33Z")
I’ll just post in order to subscribe to this. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/3 "2007-12-05T00:59:08Z")
There are certainly Arabs living in Haifa and Tel Aviv, but I’d be surprised to hear about Palestinians living there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/4 "2007-12-05T01:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] There are certainly Arabs living in Haifa and Tel Aviv, but I’d be surprised to hear about Palestinians living there. [/QUOTE] After a few decades of “just trying to raise a family, nurture a career, etc.” they aren’t Palestinians any more - they’re Israelis, so I agree that asking about Palestinians in Israel is a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/5 "2007-12-05T01:57:18Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] they aren’t Palestinians any more - they’re Israelis, [/QUOTE] But surely some religious and cultural differences remain that cause difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/6 "2007-12-05T03:47:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] After a few decades of “just trying to raise a family, nurture a career, etc.” they aren’t Palestinians any more - they’re Israelis, so I agree that asking about Palestinians in Israel is a bit odd. [/QUOTE] Fine, let’s try this: European-looking Jewish Israelis & Arab-looking Muslim Palestinians Living and working side-by-side. Going to school together. Playing hoops at the gym. Dating. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/7 "2007-12-05T03:56:05Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] Fine, let’s try this: [/QUOTE] Well, before I dig myself in deeper, I’ll defer to Dopers who actually live in and around Israel to describe the challenges faced by resident aliens in that nation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/8 "2007-12-05T04:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] After a few decades of “just trying to raise a family, nurture a career, etc.” they aren’t Palestinians any more - they’re Israelis, so I agree that asking about Palestinians in Israel is a bit odd. [/QUOTE] Well, no, Palestinians raise families and have careers too. “Palestinian” refers to the residents of Gaza and the West Bank, as well as those Arabs who fled Israel proper during its formation. Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens and don’t have rights of residence in Israel. However, there are Arabs in Israel…the descendants of those people who didn’t flee Israel when it was formed. They’re Israeli citizens and have the rights of Israeli citizens…they can own property, vote, serve in the government, etc. The only big legal limitation that they have is that they don’t have to do mandatory millitary service (with the exception of the Druze, and Bedouin, who are both ethnically Arab, but not classified as “Arab” under the law) I think what you’re asking is “What’s life like for Israeli Arabs?”, right? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/9 "2007-12-05T04:28:18Z")
How about a [Palestinian/Israeli gay couple?](http://www.globalgayz.com/g-palestine.html) ---
**Author:** ![adirondack\_mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/10 "2007-12-05T05:01:22Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] European-looking Jewish Israelis [/QUOTE] And Arab looking Jewish Israelis, and African looking Jewish Israelis, and Indian looking Jewish Israelis, etc. And Druze looking Druze, and Bedouin looking Bedouins, etc, Israel is a multicultural society and different groups tend to stay together. The Universities are open to all. There are no laws that prevent any Israeli citizen from rights enjoyed by others except for the [Law of Return](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_return). Religious matters are settled by religious courts of whatever religion the parties belong to. A Christian or Muslim is not bound by Jewish law as much as a Muslim is bound by Christian law. That is not to say that there are minority groups (Jewish and Arab) that feel that they are not treated equally. But that matter is common in many countries, societies, and cultures, and is more appropriate for the GD. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/11 "2007-12-05T05:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] And Arab looking Jewish Israelis, and African looking Jewish Israelis, and Indian looking Jewish Israelis, etc. [/QUOTE] I just met a Jewish Rabbi last week who looked for all the world like Forrest Whitaker, but with a colossal white beard. I was later told he was from Ethiopia. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/12 "2007-12-05T13:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] Religious matters are settled by religious courts of whatever religion the parties belong to. A Christian or Muslim is not bound by Jewish law as much as a Muslim is bound by Christian law. [/QUOTE] Are there atheist courts? Or maybe I’m not understanding religious matters? What if an Arab needs to settle a Jew over something ostensibly religious? Is that a legal or religious matter? Being from a completely secular society, I’m quite intrigued – I never realized that Israel had religious courts. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/13 "2007-12-05T13:59:09Z")
[QUOTE=Balthisar] Are there atheist courts? Or maybe I’m not understanding religious matters? What if an Arab needs to settle a Jew over something ostensibly religious? Is that a legal or religious matter? Being from a completely secular society, I’m quite intrigued – I never realized that Israel had religious courts. [/QUOTE] “Religious matters” are things like marriage and divorce. These must be done according to the religion of the bride and groom. Non-religious marriages are not allowed within Israel. Those who want a secular, non-religious matter often go abroad (usually to Cyprus), get a civil marriage there, and it is recognized by the Israeli gov’t upon their return. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/14 "2007-12-05T14:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Keeve] Non-religious marriages are not allowed within Israel. [/QUOTE] Huh. I didn’t know that. “Holy Land” indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/15 "2007-12-05T18:04:36Z")
The usual terminology for Arabs living in the pre-67 borders “Israel proper” in cities like Jaffa, Acre, Haifa and Nazareth is “Israeli Arabs” although I’ve also heard them referred to as “Israeli Palestinians”. BTW some Palestinians - the so-called Crusader children - can look as ‘European’ as some Israelis. I don’t know how integrated the communities are in these cities though. When I lived in Jerusalem in the 1970s we, as Jewish Israelis, had some social contact with Palestinians from East Jerusalem, Jericho and Ramallah through my Dad’s work - he is a doctor and many of his colleagues and patients were Palestinian. Otherwise there was not much scope for contact, but this is supposed to be different in Haifa, Acre, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/16 "2007-12-05T20:17:38Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] I’ll just post in order to subscribe to this. [/QUOTE] not necessary. just look under thread tools. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/17 "2007-12-05T20:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] not necessary. just look under thread tools. [/QUOTE] I was offering support to the OP and evidencing interest. Thanks, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/18 "2007-12-05T21:51:51Z")
Also note that there are plenty of Arabs who aren’t muslims. So saying people who speak Arabic and are Muslims are Palestinians, while people who speak Hebrew and are Jews are Israelis is too simple. What makes someone an Israeli? Well, that’s actually an answerable question, anyone who holds Israeli citizenship is an Israeli. And there are Arab speaking muslims who hold Israeli citizenship. But what’s the difference between an Arab speaking muslim who lives in Israel and holds Israeli citizenship, and an Arab speaking muslim who lives in Israel but doesn’t hold Israeli citizenship? Is one a Palestinian but the other isn’t, or are both Palestinians? Now, who is a Palestinian? Someone who holds Palestinian citizenship? That won’t work, because there is as yet no such country as Palestine. Someone who lives in Palestine? OK, what’s Palestine? Is Palestine the occupied territories, is it the occupied territories plus Israel, and what about parts of Jordan? What about Palestinians who don’t live in Palestine? What if your parents are Palestinians but you were born in Egypt and have never lived in Palestine, are you still Palestinian? Does it matter if Egypt doesn’t consider you an Egyptian citizen? And of course, lots of Arab speakers who live in Israel and the Occupied Territories aren’t Muslims, plenty of them are Christian, and plenty of Arab Christians consider themselves Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/19 "2007-12-05T22:12:26Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] The Universities are open to all. There are no laws that prevent any Israeli citizen from rights enjoyed by others except for the [Law of Return](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_return). Religious matters are settled by religious courts of whatever religion the parties belong to. A Christian or Muslim is not bound by Jewish law as much as a Muslim is bound by Christian law. That is not to say that there are minority groups (Jewish and Arab) that feel that they are not treated equally. But that matter is common in many countries, societies, and cultures, and is more appropriate for the GD. [/QUOTE] This is kind of what I was looking for. It seems you hear from one side that the Palestinians are trying to kill Jews, on the other side, you hear that Israel is an apartheid state after stealing the land. So I was wondering what it was really like for the non-Jews in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palestinians-living-with-israelis/428859/20 "2007-12-12T16:33:43Z")
Hope it isn’t to late to add to this thread, but I was waiting until all the GQ factual replies came in. I recently read a novel by **Richard North Patterson** titled _Exile_. It is largely about Israelis and Palestinians coexisting. Although it is fiction, Patterson did extensive research and there is a lengthy bibliography. Might be worth a look. > **[Amazon.com: Exile: 9780805079470: Patterson, Richard North: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Exile-Richard-North-Patterson/dp/0805079475)** > > Amazon.com: Exile: 9780805079470: Patterson, Richard North: Books