# Palin charging state for families' travels **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973 "2008-10-21T23:54:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/21 "2008-10-22T02:18:48Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > My impression is that it was not the governor’s jet, but the state’s jet, and was used for more than just shuttling the governor around. If so, that would spread the cost around. I believe I read somewhere that the plane was also used for shuttling around Alaska’s prison inmates who were being housed out of state (due to there not being enough space in the state’s prisons). _off to Google_ [News article from Sept 4, 2008](http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/09/04/palin_plane.html): > [@](#): > > Also, while Palin characterized the plane as an extravagance of former Gov. Frank Murkowski, who arranged for its purchase in November 2005, the plane saw heavy use transporting Alaskan convicts, according to flight records and interviews with corrections officials. > > Alaska does not have adequate prison capacity and contracts for space with a private facility near Phoenix. On Thursday, 24 percent of the 4,546 Alaskans in jail or in prison were serving their time at Arizona’s Red Rock Correctional Center, said Richard Schmitz, spokesman for the Alaska Department of Corrections. > > When the state first began using the plane in November 2005, prisoner transport accounted for 58 percent of the jet’s use, and Murkowski’s office used it 23 percent of the time. Over time, Murkowski’s usage increased. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/22 "2008-10-22T02:36:58Z")
I feel bad for her kids. I am sorry, I do not like her, I think she was an addition to the McCain campaign that is attempting to pander to women. I am voting for Obama. But I still feel sorry for her kids. God, I am such a mom. ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/23 "2008-10-22T02:37:15Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > I never like it when stories like this break this close to an election. I have a propensity not to believe it. What I find interesting is that the AP has had quite an right wing bent these days. So it is odd that it came from them. But I still am leery of it. The records were requested prior to her being selected as the VP. I think this was in the works for awhile, although I understand what you’re saying. > [@](#): > > On Aug. 6, three weeks before Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain chose Palin his running mate, and after Alaska reporters asked for the records, Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters’ travel. I like this part though… > [@](#): > > The state is already reviewing nearly $17,000 in per diem payments to Palin for more than 300 nights she slept at her own home, 40 miles from her satellite office in Anchorage. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/24 "2008-10-22T02:49:24Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > I never like it when stories like this break this close to an election. I have a propensity not to believe it. What I find interesting is that the AP has had quite an right wing bent these days. So it is odd that it came from them. But I still am leery of it. This story didn’t just break. It’s just now showing up here. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/25 "2008-10-22T02:52:20Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I hear what you’re saying…and I agree…but I would shocked to learn that this is NOT a common practice amongst Governors and Congresspeoples. Whether or not it’s a common practice is not really relevant. Whether she followed State of Alaska procedure is relevant. She should have just done the time honored procedure of having some political lobby fly her kids to the New York boondoggle. I’m kind of surprised that she’d take her kids to those hotbeds of terrorist-loving liberals, but maybe she thought it would be educational to see how the Fake America lives. Or she thought that the shopping might be better than Anchorage. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/26 "2008-10-22T02:53:13Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > Alaska law does not specifically address expenses for a governor’s children. The law allows for payment of expenses for anyone conducting official state business. Forgive me if I don’t trust the AP’s opinion on Alaskan law. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/27 "2008-10-22T02:54:44Z")
Are children conducting official state business now, **Rand Rover**? Seriously now. You can’t honestly believe your own bullshit half the time. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/28 "2008-10-22T02:55:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > From the article: > > Forgive me if I don’t trust the AP’s opinion on Alaskan law. You’re forgiven. Now go back to wherever it was you were. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/29 "2008-10-22T03:06:16Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > You’re forgiven. Now go back to wherever it was you were. I was beating up on liberal doper douchebags in a different thread. OK I’ll go back. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/30 "2008-10-22T03:07:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I was beating up on liberal doper douchebags in a different thread. OK I’ll go back. But seriously, who do you belong to? Will they be upset when they find out that you’ve been out of the cage since September? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/31 "2008-10-22T03:08:55Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > I never like it when stories like this break this close to an election. I have a propensity not to believe it. What I find interesting is that the AP has had quite an right wing bent these days. So it is odd that it came from them. But I still am leery of it. This one is old news - it came out in the first two weeks but was ignored in the other trainwrecks about her that were being discovered - I mean its hard to beat the rape kits, the unwed teenage pregnant daughter, the weird flight back home in labor, Troopergate, etc. Padding expense reports - that’s garden variety political corruption. (It appears that most tax attorneys disagree with the one she found - if her kids travel was paid for, that should be a taxable benefit to her - so she is probably screwed on the tax thing even if the travel is allowed - and the travel being allowed will probably be determined by some sort of audit group in Alaska - whose business it is). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/32 "2008-10-22T03:10:57Z")
The whole thing bothers me. I used to draw per diem when I traveled and have never heard of someone drawing same for living at home where you don’t pay rent nor purchase your meals. I also always had to submit lodging receipts. Her defenders say “Oh, but she _saved_ the state all this money by not drawing per diem in Juneau!” That’s like saying I saved $3,000 when I bought this $50,000 automobile. You still spent taxpayer dollars, just not as many. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/33 "2008-10-22T03:11:35Z")
I’m looking for anything about Governor’s shuttling their families when they travel. So far I found this article about New York Governor Pataki who campaigned on the excesses of Cuomo using state airplanes to transport his family, then continued to use them for his own, albeit not as often. From a [1995 New York Times article](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE6DF1F3DF932A25756C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all): > [@](#): > > During last year’s campaign, Gov. George E. Pataki harshly criticized Mario M. Cuomo for allowing family members to fly on state aircraft, a symbol, he said, of Mr. Cuomo’s “outrageous free-spending liberal philosophy.” > > But five months into his own tenure, Mr. Pataki has yet to ban the trips, the latest sign that the Governor has sometimes had difficulty transforming the populist, belt-tightening promises of his campaign into action. > > The state’s aviation manifests for the first four months of the year, obtained under New York’s Freedom of Information Law, show that Pataki family members have flown on the state plane or helicopters four times. I infer from the above that this practice does not breach any legal boundaries in New York but was construed as somewhat lacking in ethics or decorum. In California Governor Schwarzenegger pays for his own private jet commutes from his home in Southern California to Sacramento. He is a wealthy SOB, so it’s not necessarily a fair standard to hold other Governors of lesser means (like the Palins) to. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/34 "2008-10-22T03:23:45Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Or she thought that the shopping might be better than Anchorage. [Evidently it was.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081022/pl_politico/14805;_ylt=AhvW1sR7YJsLfm7Wx5NHNbyyFz4D) ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/35 "2008-10-22T03:24:58Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > (It appears that most \*\*tax attorneys \*\*disagree with the one she found - if her kids travel was paid for, that should be a taxable benefit to her - so she is probably screwed on the tax thing even if the travel is allowed - and the travel being allowed will probably be determined by some sort of audit group in Alaska - whose business it is). Nitpick: you probably mean tax accountants. Most tax attorneys don’t do this type of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/36 "2008-10-22T03:40:23Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The whole thing bothers me. I used to draw per diem when I traveled and have never heard of someone drawing same for living at home where you don’t pay rent nor purchase your meals. I also always had to submit lodging receipts. Her defenders say “Oh, but she _saved_ the state all this money by not drawing per diem in Juneau!” That’s like saying I saved $3,000 when I bought this $50,000 automobile. You still spent taxpayer dollars, just not as many. The thing that pisses me off is that when I am on travel for work I have to justify why I spent $80 on a motel when a $75 one was available (this is charged to the government). Little things like that I have to completely justify in an attempt to provide some kind of internal controls on where company/government/taxpayer money is going. Yet the fat cats will think nothing of dropping a thousand on wine and staying in ritzy $800 to $1,000 a night at different hotels. It just amazes me that they go through so much effort to stop the “little man” from spending an extra $50 on a week long trip while these guys literally blow thousands, and as we have seen from the recent taxpayer bailout billions. But what the fuck do I know. I am just a lowly engineer. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/37 "2008-10-22T03:41:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > From the article: > > Forgive me if I don’t trust the AP’s opinion on Alaskan law. [QUOTE=AS § 39.20.060] Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, the governor and lieutenant governor are not considered employees of the state for the purpose of state personnel laws relating to hours of employment, annual leave, sick leave, overtime, compensatory time, and travel allowances. This section does not deprive the governor and lieutenant governor of the right to participate in the state retirement system or in state group insurance plans. [/QUOTE] Looks like the situation is a little less murky than the AP states. Palin’s actions have wasted Alaskan tax dollars, but they don’t appear to violate state law. The Alaskan state laws regulating who can claim travel expenses and who may claim per diems (such as AS 39.20.120: Only actual and necessary traveling expenses shall be allowed to an official or employee) defines employees as people employed by state agencies and officials as appointive heads of state agencies. Looks like the governor and lieutenant governor have carte blanche when it comes to claiming travel expenses, since it appears that Palin claimed her children’s expenses as part of her own and not under their own category. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/38 "2008-10-22T03:51:34Z")
As much as I despise Palin, I can’t get worked up about this. It looks like she was padding her expenses and per diems, but doing it to bring her kids along on trips is just not something that chaps me all that much. I suspect it’s also not very unusual for elected officials. There are much better reasons to vote against Palin. I can’t see this blowing up into anything significant. I’m not sure I’d want the press diving too deeply into Obama’s or Biden’s exoense accounts either. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/39 "2008-10-22T04:23:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nitpick: you probably mean tax accountants. Most tax attorneys don’t do this type of stuff. Nitpick: Not only are you an idiot, you also happen to be wrong…again. [http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof\_blog/2008/10/gov-palin-relea.html](http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/10/gov-palin-relea.html) > [@](#): > > After releasing her 2006 and 2007 tax returns and financial disclosure form, Gov. Palin has released this opinion letter from Washington D.C. tax lawyer Roger M. Olsen stating that she was entitled to rely on Alaska’s determination that her per diem expense reimbursements do not constitute income to her: Better still: > **[Tax Profs Agree: Gov. Palin's Tax Returns Are Wrong](http://ronideutch.blogspot.com/2008/10/tax-profs-agree-gov-palins-tax-returns.html)** > > From Tax Prof Blog : Jack Bogdanski (Lewis & Clark) & Bryan Camp (Texas Tech) have independently reviewed the tax issues raised by the re... > [@](#): > > Does Mr. Olsen have any exposure to sanctions by the IRS because of his letter? I believe Mr. Olsen’s letter probably violates 31 C.F.R. section 10.35. If so, he would be exposed to possible sanctions from the IRS Office of Professional Responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973/40 "2008-10-22T10:54:16Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > Looks like the situation is a little less murky than the AP states. Palin’s actions have wasted Alaskan tax dollars, but they don’t appear to violate state law. It appears to be an issue of more-that-average political phoniness (“maverick reformer”, my ass) rather than one of actual ethical or legal impropriety. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-charging-state-for-families-travels/468973.md?page=3)