# Palin Collected Travel Per Diems While At Home **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778 "2008-09-09T14:19:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/81 "2008-09-10T02:49:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But no, she didn’t sell it ‘at a profit’. She sold it for market value ($300K under the black book value, which is about average thee days), and in so doing saved the state a pile of money. And he… sticks the landing. The judges will certainly love those kinds of mental gymnastics. > [@SamStone](#): > > It should also be noted that Palin did not charge for lodging fees when she was home - only travel expenses. Alaska’s a huge state. The distance from the Governor’s mansion in Juneau to her home in Wasilla is almost 600 miles. Her overall travel expenses are something like 80% lower than her predecessor’s. Cite? I’ll admit I don’t know a ton of the details, but I read this: "The $60-a-day allowance is available for state employees when traveling on official state business to cover meals and other sundry expenses. Ms. Palin’s per diems, which included some charges for partial days, totaled $17,059, from Dec. 4, 2006, when she took office, through June 30, 2008, the most recent data available, according to Sharon Leighow, a spokeswoman for the governor’s office. Ms. Palin’s salary is $125,000 a year. Ms. Palin was able to receive the allotment while she was at home because her official “duty station” is listed as Juneau, the state capital, aides said. That allowed Ms. Palin to file for per diems while she was working out of her Anchorage office and commuting from her home about 45 miles away in Wasilla. Juneau is nearly 600 miles away. The practice of billing for staying at home seems to be unusual. Many officials said it would not be allowed in their states, including California, Pennsylvania and South Carolina, as well as other jurisdictions. On the federal level, officials said members of Congress do not get per diem allowances for routine home visits. “To charge the citizens of any state for home visits is somewhat beyond the pale,” said Chuck Ardo, a spokesman for Pennsylvania Gov. Edward G. Rendell, a Democrat who supported Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in the primary." [from here](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/10/us/politics/10billing.html?ref=politics). Now, it sounds to me that the per diems taken at home were not, as you seem to be saying, all travel days. I honestly don’t know, so if you have the info, please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/82 "2008-09-10T02:52:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Before she became governor, she and her husband were doing commercial fishing in the summers and hunting game to make ends meet. She drives a Volkswagen. So her husband was working up on the Slope for what, tips? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/83 "2008-09-10T03:02:25Z")
But as I said before, if that cited page in the Post was any indication, she wasn’t billing for a day at home, but a day where she was traveling on state business and then returned home. Again, I’m driving about forty miles from my job to visit a customer in a few days - and I’ll be billing mileage and meals that day. I’ll still be sleeping at home, but nobody would contend that this sort of billing is improper in any way. Expenses may be incurred without traveling at all, and these are submitted on the same form. Palin noted that this was for funeral and meeting expenses - this would fit into her job description, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/84 "2008-09-10T03:07:24Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And he… sticks the landing. The judges will certainly love those kinds of mental gymnastics. > Cite? I’ll admit I don’t know a ton of the details, but I read this: > > "The $60-a-day allowance is available for state employees when traveling on official state business to cover meals and other sundry expenses. Ms. Palin’s per diems, which included some charges for partial days, totaled $17,059, from Dec. 4, 2006, when she took office, through June 30, 2008, the most recent data available, according to Sharon Leighow, a spokeswoman for the governor’s office. Ms. Palin’s salary is $125,000 a year. > > Ms. Palin was able to receive the allotment while she was at home because her official “duty station” is listed as Juneau, the state capital, aides said. That allowed Ms. Palin to file for per diems while she was working out of her Anchorage office and commuting from her home about 45 miles away in Wasilla. Juneau is nearly 600 miles away. > > The practice of billing for staying at home seems to be unusual. Many officials said it would not be allowed in their states, including California, Pennsylvania and South Carolina, as well as other jurisdictions. On the federal level, officials said members of Congress do not get per diem allowances for routine home visits. > > “To charge the citizens of any state for home visits is somewhat beyond the pale,” said Chuck Ardo, a spokesman for Pennsylvania Gov. Edward G. Rendell, a Democrat who supported Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in the primary." [from here](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/10/us/politics/10billing.html?ref=politics). > > Now, it sounds to me that the per diems taken at home were not, as you seem to be saying, all travel days. I honestly don’t know, so if you have the info, please let me know. You can see one of her actual receipts right on the Washington Post’s site. Or you can [click here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/09/09/GR2008090900280.html?sid=ST2008090900325&s_pos=list). Note the column for ‘lodging’ is empty. The Per Diem is just for travel expenses. She was also eligible to charge the per diem for her daughter, and elected not to. So she didn’t even claim all the allowances she was entitled to. And let’s not forget that this woman went from a small home in Wasilla and a Volkswagen, and was offered her own private jet and private chef, and turned them both down. How many of us would do that? Clearly, this is not a woman trying to find ways to milk the state for her personal benefit. Her predecessor’s last year travel expenses were over $400,000. Hers were around 20% of that. Really, this is about the lamest ‘scandal’ ever. But I’m sure lamer ones will be along shortly. This woman has to be destroyed. She’s too much of a threat. It’s actually kind of fun to see what kind of dirt the left will try to throw at her next. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/85 "2008-09-10T03:08:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Oh, I don’t think he will dump her now; but he would cut her loose like deuce if the fickle Palindrones decide she isn’t The One they were hoping for and the polls drop as quickly as they rose.. Not a chance. He’ll be riding her till the end, no matter what. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/86 "2008-09-10T03:09:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > But as I said before, if that cited page in the Post was any indication, she wasn’t billing for a day at home, but a day where she was traveling on state business and then returned home. That’s not what the article said: > [@](#): > > The popular governor collected the per diem allowance from April 22, four days after the birth of her fifth child, until June 3, when she flew to Juneau for two days. So she travelled every day for 42 days straight with a newborn special needs infant? You cannot expect us to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/87 "2008-09-10T03:15:27Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > But as I said before, if that cited page in the Post was any indication, she wasn’t billing for a day at home, but a day where she was traveling on state business and then returned home. > > Again, I’m driving about forty miles from my job to visit a customer in a few days - and I’ll be billing mileage and meals that day. I’ll still be sleeping at home, but nobody would contend that this sort of billing is improper in any way. > > Expenses may be incurred without traveling at all, and these are submitted on the same form. Palin noted that this was for funeral and meeting expenses - this would fit into her job description, wouldn’t it? **Mr. Moto** is right, it’s typical to be able to charge portions of per diems if you are away from home for part or all of a day, even if you come home to sleep in your own bed. My husband travels extensively for work, and he is entitled to per diems for traveling by car or plane to see a client whether he comes back home again the same day or not. His company has some way of slicing it up, so you don’t get the hotel/overnight part of it but can still legitimately charge in for whatever meals you missed. It seems from what I’ve read about this that the government does it the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/88 "2008-09-10T03:24:09Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Lie through her teeth about it. Repeatedly. So…let’s say that a President slashes the defense budget by 50% and then fills out an expense report for a few billion… It’s all cool as long as it could possibly be argued that it’s a net gain, huh? Interesting. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/89 "2008-09-10T03:33:32Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > So…let’s say that a President slashes the defense budget by 50% and then fills out an expense report for a few billion… > > It’s all cool as long as it could possibly be argued that it’s a net gain, huh? Interesting. > > -Joe That’s the craziest analogy I’ve ever heard. How about this one: The President is offered a salary of half a million dollars. He voluntarily refuses it, but then MAYBE charges an extra couple of thousand bucks as a travel allowance over what he should have. Still sound like much of a scandal? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/90 "2008-09-10T04:18:08Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I think people are confused here. The same forms are used for expenses and travel, so this can get a little strange. > > [If you look at the form in question](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/09/09/GR2008090900280.html?sid=ST2008090900325&s_pos=list) and look at the circled expense, you’ll note that Palin wasn’t billing for per diem rates at home. She was just noting that she was at home and then billing for the meal costs associated with attending a funeral and a Black community meeting. I’m sorry, I’m having trouble piecing that together from your link. All I can see is that she had written “lodging – own residence | Funeral service, Black community meeting.” Where are you seeing that she wasn’t billing for per diem rates at home? Where did you find that “she was just noting that she was at home and then billing for the meal costs associated with attending a funeral and a Black community meeting”? Not that it isn’t out there somewhere, and not that it isn’t a plausible explanation – but it needs some cite or clarification. Oh, and I (along with many others here) am awfully familiar with the labyrinth of paperwork that is government (and contractor) per diem reports, so feel free to get as technical as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/91 "2008-09-10T04:22:42Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > As for the jet, I don’t think she did anything wrong, but once again, taxpayers were the ones who got shafted, while Palin ends up looking like some sort of no-nonsense reformer. Gosh. Palin makes the absolute best of an extremely poor decision by her predecessor and your knocking her? Are people so afraid of acknowledging good actions by their political opponents? Obama proponents are really scraping the bottom of the barrel of scandals if this is the best they can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/92 "2008-09-10T14:16:33Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I’m sorry, I’m having trouble piecing that together from your link. All I can see is that she had written “lodging – own residence | Funeral service, Black community meeting.” Where are you seeing that she wasn’t billing for per diem rates at home? Where did you find that “she was just noting that she was at home and then billing for the meal costs associated with attending a funeral and a Black community meeting”? > > Not that it isn’t out there somewhere, and not that it isn’t a plausible explanation – but it needs some cite or clarification. > > Oh, and I (along with many others here) am awfully familiar with the labyrinth of paperwork that is government (and contractor) per diem reports, so feel free to get as technical as necessary. Okay - let’s get into the nitty-gritty here. Looking at the form in question - the only one the Washington Post has seen fit to provide us - we can see what Palin was doing on the days in question. On March 28th she left Juneau at 7:47 pm and arrived at Anchorage at 9:33 pm - and billed a partial per diem. No sweat. On March 29th she left Anchorage, attended a funeral at Fort Richardson just outside of Anchorage for a soldier and then attended a “Black community meeting”. Now, per diem applies to expenses incurred on the job - if a person were to go about their business in an office, they can mitigate their personal costs to work in many ways - by bringing a sandwich to work, using company cafeteria facilities, etc. Grabbing meals on the go racks up money - that is why per diem exists. And it doesn’t just apply when you fly hundreds of miles to somewhere. I’ll probably submit a receipt next week and be reimbursed - but per diem is another way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/93 "2008-09-10T15:18:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are correct - nothing will make this horseshit go away except if Obama wins the election. If he doesn’t, four years of it, minimum. Shodan Goes On Record: McCain Victory Will Mean “Four Years Of Horseshit” Finally, something we can agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/94 "2008-09-10T15:23:55Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Again, I’m driving about forty miles from my job to visit a customer in a few days - and I’ll be billing mileage and meals that day. I’ll still be sleeping at home, but nobody would contend that this sort of billing is improper in any way. I commute about that distance (because Metro has a scam where they divert buses away from the local Metrorail station all the way to the Pentagon, enabling them to charge an “express” bus fare for the connection) – if I tried to charge a per diem I’d be out on my ass as soon as somebody noticed the scam. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/95 "2008-09-10T15:48:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I commute about that distance (because Metro has a scam where they divert buses away from the local Metrorail station all the way to the Pentagon, enabling them to charge an “express” bus fare for the connection) – if I tried to charge a per diem I’d be out on my ass as soon as somebody noticed the scam. And you are the Governor of which state? There are many legal and ethical reasons to bill for per diem, mileage, expeses etc. that vary from profession to profession. Because you are unable to do so, does not reflect poorly on those who legally can. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/96 "2008-09-10T15:54:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I commute about that distance (because Metro has a scam where they divert buses away from the local Metrorail station all the way to the Pentagon, enabling them to charge an “express” bus fare for the connection) – if I tried to charge a per diem I’d be out on my ass as soon as somebody noticed the scam. Politicians have differnt “Tax Homes” and residences that us working dudes. Its confusing but my Bro explained it to me, and when he did it sorta made sense. basicly, where you work is your tax home. Tax laws assume you should live near your tax home. But Politician is generally a short term job and many times requires you maintain a residence in your district even though you work a lot of time in the Capital. Thus, there are special rules for them. Not just Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/97 "2008-09-10T15:58:29Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And you are the Governor of which state? There are many legal and ethical reasons to bill for per diem, mileage, expeses etc. that vary from profession to profession. Because you are unable to do so, does not reflect poorly on those who legally can. Are you suggesting that if it’s legal, it’s ethical? Are you suggesting that there’s nothing absurd about a candidate clamoring for the fiscally responsible mantle while charging “lodging” for staying in her own home? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/98 "2008-09-10T16:02:04Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And you are the Governor of which state? There are many legal and ethical reasons to bill for per diem, mileage, expeses etc. that vary from profession to profession. Because you are unable to do so, does not reflect poorly on those who legally can. Legally? What does that have to do with squandering tax payer money? Last I heard, earmarks are legal, yet McPalin seems to think they reflect poorly on those who legislate them. This is not about what is legal, but what is perceived to be hypocrisy when they decry wasteful government spending with one hand, and take money for expenses they did not have with the other. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/99 "2008-09-10T16:11:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thus, there are special rules for them. Not just Palin. Oh, Palin should be all means get out in front of the issue by explaining that her per diems are justified because there are special rules for politicians… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778/100 "2008-09-10T16:13:38Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I commute about that distance (because Metro has a scam where they divert buses away from the local Metrorail station all the way to the Pentagon, enabling them to charge an “express” bus fare for the connection) – if I tried to charge a per diem I’d be out on my ass as soon as somebody noticed the scam. Actually, I conferred with my Bro on this. If your employer _required_ you to maintain a residence \*and an office \*where you now live, plus you only worked half a year where you now worked, and that job was up front only for 4 years, then yes, you likely could claim per diem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-collected-travel-per-diems-while-at-home/462778.md?page=6)