# Palin is a collectivist socialist. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862 "2008-10-27T23:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/81 "2008-10-29T20:19:10Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > West, the reporter that you obliquely mention, has been connected very firmly to the Republican party. There’s not a legitimate journalist who thinks her interrogation of Biden was professional or fair. Aw, poor baby, Obama gets called on the carpet for blurting out his agenda and Biden couldn’t spin it with advance warning. Could it be that he just assumed the MSM would give Obama another pass? He was taken completely off guard. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/82 "2008-10-29T20:22:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Aw, poor baby, Obama gets called on the carpet for blurting out his agenda and Biden couldn’t spin it with advance warning. Could it be that he just assumed the MSM would give Obama another pass? He was taken completely off guard. Oh, yes. His “socialist agenda”. You know what? I’m just going to assume that the right-wing is going to be completely incoherent and impermeable to fact or reason until well after Nov. 4th. You whole lot are like sheep to me for a while. Baah Baah Baah…greed good, compassion bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/83 "2008-10-29T20:22:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If your concept of taxation is based on “fairness” then you are a Marxist. > [@Magiver](#): > > The tax code isn’t based on a candidate’s concept of what is fair. So no, it’s not based on Marxism. Your ridiculous insistence that the notion of basing tax policy on “fairness” is somehow intrinsically Marxist requires you to call Ronald Reagan a Marxist too. See, for example, his 1985 document [“The President’s tax proposals to the Congress for fairness, growth, and simplicity.”](http://openlibrary.org/b/OL2664682M) Reagan’s speeches on the subject, such as [this one](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan's_Fourth_State_of_the_Union_Speech), also clearly reflected the centrality of his concept of fairness to the structure of his tax policies: > [@Ronald Reagan](#): > > Last year I asked Treasury Secretary–then-- Regan to develop a plan to simplify the tax code, so all taxpayers would be treated more fairly and personal tax rates could come further down. […] > > We have cut tax rates by almost 25 percent, yet the tax system remains unfair and limits our potential for growth. […] > > To restore fairness to families, we will propose increasing significantly the personal exemption. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/84 "2008-10-29T20:23:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Reagan lowered taxes and raised revenue. No, he didn’t. And this kind of nonsense shows how “conservatives” have become completely untethered from reality. Reagan cut taxes his first year in office, and revenues dropped dramatically. Then Federal taxes were raised **every single year** of the Reagan administration, except for the last year, when there was no change in Federal tax policy. I’m not saying this to bash Reagan. He had his pragmatic times, and around taxes he ultimately ended up looking at facts. Here’s an opinion column from [Bruce Bartlett](http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200310290853.asp) (warning: NRO) which lists all the Reagan-era tax increases. Bartlett was a domestic policy advisor to Reagan and a treasury official in the first Bush administration. > [@](#): > > Instead of taking from the rich and giving to the poor, he made the rich richer and siphoned off the spoils. You can’t grow an economy by raising taxes and Reagan understood this. I think there’s a Kennedy quote in there somewhere because he was one of the first to figure it out. You can’t grow an economy by peddling nonsense. I’m curious, how old are you? Because if you’re old enough to have lived through Reagan administration, what is your explanation for not remembering Reagan’s tax policy? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/85 "2008-10-29T20:26:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Reagan lowered taxes and raised revenue. Instead of taking from the rich and giving to the poor, he made the rich richer and siphoned off the spoils. You can’t grow an economy by raising taxes and Reagan understood this. In other words, you’re completely uninterested in logical consistency when you use the label “Marxism”. Reagan based his tax policy on the concept of fairness, and said so openly, so by your reasoning, that makes Reagan a Marxist. But because Reagan’s tax policies happened to be ones you agree with, and Obama’s aren’t, you’ll call Obama a Marxist but not Reagan. Figures. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/86 "2008-10-29T21:38:21Z")
> **[Dumbest Sarah Palin Quotes and Gaffes Ever](https://www.liveabout.com/sarah-palins-dumbest-quotes-2734672)** > > Read a compilation of dumb quotes, gaffes, and lies by Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, updated frequently. “And Alaska - we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs….” - Sarah Palin Peace rwj ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/87 "2008-10-29T23:11:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The tax code isn’t based on a candidate’s concept of what is fair. Well, as I asked before, if it’s not based on fairness, what is it based on? I’m amazed you think your argument is worth making. I mean, I’m sure if you ask McCain if Obama’s plan is fair he’ll tell you no, it’s unfair. What does that make him? If it’s okay to reject a tax policy because it’s not fair, but it’s wrong to create one based on the same principles, something is not just not adding up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/88 "2008-10-29T23:22:53Z")
Incidentally, she got the extra money by imposing a windfall profits tax on oil comanies (something that McCain/Palin now says is bad), so it definitely IS a tax on income. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862/89 "2008-10-30T01:18:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You know what? I’m just going to assume that the right-wing is going to be completely incoherent and impermeable to fact or reason until well after Nov. 4th. You whole lot are like sheep to me for a while. Baah Baah Baah…greed good, compassion bad. I’m an independent who votes for candidates of both parties. But the last couple of elections, I treat my Republican friends like inebriated drunks in the days before the election. Obama is a Muslim, John Kerry a coward. Ignorance is strength. (But we will always be at war with (west) Asia). They’ll be much more civil and pleasant to be around when they wake up. And four years from now (eight if the Dems win), it will be a dirty lie that they EVER called Obama a socialist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-is-a-collectivist-socialist/469862.md?page=4)