# Palin says Obama would kill her baby **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703 "2009-08-07T23:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/121 "2009-08-09T04:39:27Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Not to mention old people. I’m an old people. Offer me the longer-lasting dose of Soma and I’ll take it in a heart beat. If we, the American people, ever get the well educated, well intentioned, well meaning, informed citizen death panels that we deserve, Sarah Palin will not last a day. She and Rand Rover might even go out hand in hand, without having any idea of where they are headed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/122 "2009-08-09T15:27:55Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This reminds me of that joke about the difference between Sarah Palin’s mouth and her vagina. More teeth? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/123 "2009-08-09T17:07:49Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Sarah Palin is a cunt. So is Newt Gingrich. > **[Gingrich Defends Palin's Obama "Death Panel" Claim](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gingrich-defends-palins-o_n_254926)** > > Gingrich Defends Palin's Obama "Death Panel" Claim ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/124 "2009-08-09T17:12:00Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I really don’t think she is. At least not anymore. Never was in my eyes. She was a poor choice then, she’s a poor choice now and will remain a poor choice into the future. Golly gee, dontcha know? **winky winky** Who else? She is the chosen one for repubs. Gingrich is scrambling to defend her because she is all they have. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/125 "2009-08-09T17:34:36Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Do we really want the government in charge of our death panels? It could take weeks, or \*months \*before they get around to killing you. Thread win. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Is there absolutely zero truth to what she is saying? Could her hypothetical regarding her (daughter’s) down syndrome child be true in any way? > > I think the healthcare bill is a little scary in that politicians on both sides can’t be bothered to read it. Shouldn’t our elected representatives have a better understanding of this bill than they apparently do? > > Flame away. Just wondering. Yes, there’s absolutely zero truth to it. The UK NHS, for example, doesn’t “kill” or refuse care to infants born with Down’s Syndrome; in fact, [usually the mother terminates the pregnancy anyway](http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/11November/Pages/DownssyndromeQA.aspx). The NHS does screen for the disease- just as private insurers do here, but it doesn’t do anything with the information; that’s the parents’ job. Elected representatives rarely read any bill; that’s what aides are for. They’ll read proclamations and things like that, since they’re usually only one page, but there’s really no point in having them read anything more than selected text from federal bills. They’re not subject matter experts, except (usually) in law, so the value of having Senator X read a given bill is roughly equal to you or I doing it. Instead, aides review whichever bits fall within their subject areas- say, crime and the penal system- and provide the congressman with a short analysis. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/126 "2009-08-09T23:12:24Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > No she isn’t. > > What she is referring to is the practice in the UK of having a group of civil servants decide whether or not a treatment for someone is worth the money. > > If a treatment is expensive, and is only going to give a small amount of extra time, it will be denied. > Older people (who, by and large, get less years from treatment as opposed to younger people) are disproportionately turned down (obviously), and a heavily downs syndrome baby would be of similar low priority. > > She is using hyperbole, but it isn’t really an inaccurate picture to paint - I think most supporters of UHC in the US (if they are honest) admit that some rationing is inevitable. Please provide evidence for this assertion. Older people do sometimes get turned down for (or, rather, not offered) treatments that are offered to younger people. It’s not because those people are no longer useful, but because they either have additional health problems or simply age-related frailities (like a weaker heart and immune system) that mean such treatment wouldn’t benefit them - it could even kill them. Invasive surgery requiring a general anaesthetic is one good example of that. Same for babies/children with Down’s Syndrome; if the heart problems that sometimes come with that syndrome mean they won’t survive or benefit from more invasive techinques, then they’re not offered those techniques. Otherwise, they’re treated the same way as other patients. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/127 "2009-08-09T23:19:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, there’s absolutely zero truth to it. The UK NHS, for example, doesn’t “kill” or refuse care to infants born with Down’s Syndrome; in fact, [usually the mother terminates the pregnancy anyway](http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/11November/Pages/DownssyndromeQA.aspx). The NHS does screen for the disease- just as private insurers do here, but it doesn’t do anything with the information; that’s the parents’ job. Just to be precise here: ordinary scans can sometimes show up signs of Down’s Syndrome\*, and then the parent/s are offered the opportunity to have further testing (usually amniocentesis). That further testing is not obligatory - neither are the scans. Women in high risk groups are offered amniocentesis too, but, again, it’s not obligatory. The risks of an amnio are always explained. Basically, the government doesn’t exactly screen for the disease, rather it offers the parents the opportunity to have such screening under the NHS. I know you know that, but it pays to be really precise sometimes. Otherwise someone could say ‘UK govt screening out all babies with Down’s Syndrome!!! How can they justify that???’ \*Though they don’t pretend to prove that a foetus has Down’s Syndrome, just that they have some signs of that, and sometimes/often the foetus does not have Down’s at all. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/128 "2009-08-09T23:24:24Z")
I will repeat for, I think, the third time, three things she says that are not at all true and are thus lies. 1. Nobody would be completely denied health insurance. Even in the sense that there is rationing, they decide a particular TREATMENT is not feasible, not that a PERSON is not worth it. 2. There is no reason to believe that people will be judged on their “level of productivity.” The rationing is based on the likelihood that a treatment would succeed and prolong life, and that’s it. There’s no discrimination based on income or ability. 3. There is nothing remotely resembling a “death panel,” and nothing that could fairly be called that by a non-liar. These are such patent falsehood and can not be interpreted or read in any way to be kind of true or almost true or mere exaggerations instead of lies. And to demonstrate otherwise, you must not treat only one of these three things, but treat all three. Show not only that the health plan might refuse treatment in some cases, which is a different statement all together, but show that they would ever completely deny treatment to an individual or that these decisions would be based on that person’s level of productivity. Show that these are panels that are principally decideding whether people will live or die. Otherwise you are saying her statement is true if only she said something completely different from what she actually said. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/129 "2009-08-09T23:24:43Z")
The Democrats [fold](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/9/764064/-Alright-Republicans,-We-Give-Up.). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/130 "2009-08-09T23:53:51Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Please provide evidence for this assertion. > > Older people do sometimes get turned down for (or, rather, not offered) treatments that are offered to younger people. It’s not because those people are no longer useful, but because they either have additional health problems or simply age-related frailities (like a weaker heart and immune system) that mean such treatment wouldn’t benefit them - it could even kill them. Invasive surgery requiring a general anaesthetic is one good example of that. > > Same for babies/children with Down’s Syndrome; if the heart problems that sometimes come with that syndrome mean they won’t survive or benefit from more invasive techinques, then they’re not offered those techniques. Otherwise, they’re treated the same way as other patients. Friend of mine’s wife needed a kidney transplant. she was refused because she was over 65 years of age. She went for dialysis twice a week for almost 15 years. She had many setbacks and was hospitalized several times. They spent about 3 million bucks after denying her. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/131 "2009-08-10T00:00:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Friend of mine’s wife needed a kidney transplant. she was refused because she was over 65 years of age. She went for dialysis twice a week for almost 15 years. She had many setbacks and was hospitalized several times. They spent about 3 million bucks after denying her. Where did this occur? Who is “they”? Have you seen documentation that demonstrates that the actual reason for denial was age and not an age-related condition? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/132 "2009-08-10T00:10:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The Democrats [fold](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/9/764064/-Alright-Republicans,-We-Give-Up.). 😃 That’s hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/133 "2009-08-10T00:41:40Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I will repeat for, I think, the third time, three things she says that are not at all true and are thus lies. > > 1. Nobody would be completely denied health insurance. Even in the sense that there is rationing, they decide a particular TREATMENT is not feasible, not that a PERSON is not worth it. > 2. There is no reason to believe that people will be judged on their “level of productivity.” The rationing is based on the likelihood that a treatment would succeed and prolong life, and that’s it. There’s no discrimination based on income or ability. > 3. There is nothing remotely resembling a “death panel,” and nothing that could fairly be called that by a non-liar. > > These are such patent falsehood and can not be interpreted or read in any way to be kind of true or almost true or mere exaggerations instead of lies. And to demonstrate otherwise, you must not treat only one of these three things, but treat all three. Show not only that the health plan might refuse treatment in some cases, which is a different statement all together, but show that they would ever completely deny treatment to an individual or that these decisions would be based on that person’s level of productivity. Show that these are panels that are principally decideding whether people will live or die. Otherwise you are saying her statement is true if only she said something completely different from what she actually said. The fact that you can point to so many actual untrue things she said makes it even sadder that you chose to focus on something she didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/134 "2009-08-10T00:42:38Z")
She did too say it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/135 "2009-08-10T00:44:43Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > No she isn’t. > > What she is referring to is the practice in the UK of having a group of civil servants decide whether or not a treatment for someone is worth the money. > > If a treatment is expensive, and is only going to give a small amount of extra time, it will be denied. > Older people (who, by and large, get less years from treatment as opposed to younger people) are disproportionately turned down (obviously), and a heavily downs syndrome baby would be of similar low priority. > > She is using hyperbole, but it isn’t really an inaccurate picture to paint - I think most supporters of UHC in the US (if they are honest) admit that some rationing is inevitable. What you mean is, “some rationing is now and has always been going on.” The proposal is to shift the rationing priority away from “parents with the most money” to some other, possibly more rational, possibly less rational, priority. Remember folks, we are _currently_ – and will be under Palin’s plan – denying coverage to non-Downs, healthy babies based on the random lotto that is their parents’ success or failure at economic luck, graft, corruption, inheritance, good-old-boy network, good looks, or even in some cases hard work. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/136 "2009-08-10T00:47:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She did too say it. Did not!! Ok, your turn. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/137 "2009-08-10T00:51:19Z")
Medicare is single payer. Who do they ration ? The Veterans Healthcare System covers ex soldiers. Who do they exclude or ration? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/138 "2009-08-10T01:03:29Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Wow she’s really cranked up the crazy now that she’s not in office. So **that’s** why she resigned! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/139 "2009-08-10T01:12:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Even speaking as a Canadian who likes universal health insurance, this is a pretty bad way of proving your point. Life expectancy is dependent upon a lot of things besides health care. Americans are, for instance, much likelier to be overweight and have obesity-related health problems than most of the countries above them on that list. Universal health care won’t stop people from eating Popeye’s. :rolleyes: This from the land of [poutine!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703/140 "2009-08-10T01:32:24Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Moreover, a child with Down Syndrome is completely healthy. The “level of disability” is quite low, many people with Down Syndrome have jobs, even go to work and back by themselves, live autonomously. It’s not a regressive condition and they can have long fruitful lives. I doubt even the most draconian private insurer denies a child health insurance for that level of disability. But one thing should be clear, private insurers can flat out deny a person coverage; the public insurance plan is quite clear that nobody can be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. It’s also true that not all persons with Down’s Syndrome are mentally retarded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-says-obama-would-kill-her-baby/505703.md?page=8)