# Palin supporters: did you know she's a book banner? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089 "2008-09-05T00:21:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/121 "2008-09-05T22:51:46Z")
> [@Parthol](#): > > You make some odd assumptions. Don’t you think it’s likely that Yardley actually talked to someone at the Frontiersman, and/or read the issue in question? And if he did, he’d report it exactly as he did in the NYT – every statement in a newspaper article doesn’t need to come with its own specific link for proof. That would be absurd. > > Similarly, why on Earth would there be any “minutes, meeting notes, emails, memos or anything from that time or those meetings,” regarding few questions she posed to a librarian, or a comment she made to a newspaper? If I ask you what you had for breakfast this morning, should I only believe you if you also show me the press release and the minutes from your breakfast table? > > Sure, I’d feel better about the evidence if someone provided a scan of the 1996 Frontiersman, but I still feel good about the evidence from the NYT. As for Emmons not responding: given the well-documented fates of those who cross Palin’s path, I might not respond either. What good would it do her? I make no assumputions. I’d just like to see the source document. While I doubt if he actually misquoted the article, he may have left stuff out or the quotes may be out of context. Context is everything in this case, especially as Kilkenny’s claims are FAR more outrageous than what was quoted in the Frontiersman. Kilkenny seems to claim that Palin did this at City Council meetings.:dubious: If so, there’d be minutes, etc. Although it’s certainly possible that Palin buttonholed Emmons outside while the council was not in session, the fact that there’s no official source for Kilkennys claims makes her very doubtful. Oh come on now, let’s get real- Emmons was not really fired, nor was anyone but the Cheif of Police. “well documented tales”:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/122 "2008-09-05T23:12:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh come on now, let’s get real- Emmons was not really fired, nor was anyone but the Cheif of Police. “well documented tales”:dubious: I’d like to see more original sources on the book banning angle, but it seems Emmons was indeed fired, according to the [Anchorage Daily News](http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AS&p_theme=as&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F793F7424CACDD2&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM) article of Jan 31, 1997. > [@](#): > > Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin fired the city’s police chief and the library director without warning Thursday, accusing them of not fully supporting her efforts to govern. Irl Stambaugh and Mary Ellen Emmons said letters signed by Palin were dropped on their desks Thursday afternoon telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13 and that they no longer needed to report to work. Emmons has been the city’s library director for seven years. Emmons was rehired a day later, but perhaps this is what you mean by she wasn’t really fired? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/123 "2008-09-05T23:19:38Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Everyone, on some level is guilty of having ideals that someone else might object to. The question is did she, the answer is no. End of story. Because she was stopped. Like she will be stopped again. Because voters won’t put her in the White House. Because she’s a book banner. See how it works? Stopped again. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/124 "2008-09-05T23:20:39Z")
[More info from the time:](http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/510219.html) > [@](#): > > City librarian Mary Ellen Emmons will stay, but Police Chief Irl Stambaugh is on his own, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin announced Friday. > > […] > > Palin said Friday she now feels Emmons supports her but does not feel the same about Stambaugh. As to what prompted the change, Palin said she now has Emmons’ assurance that she is behind her. She refused to give details about how Stambaugh has not supported her, saying only that ‘‘You know in your heart when someone is supportive of you.’’ > > […] > > Palin said she asked Emmons if she would support efforts to merge the library and museum operations. Emmons said she would, according to Palin. > > […] > > Emmons, who has been the city’s library director for seven years, would not comment about the affair. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/125 "2008-09-05T23:27:37Z")
[Not necessarily a credible source,](http://community.adn.com/node/103875) but here’s at least one reference of Sarah Palin in regards to censorship from before the current timeline: > [@](#): > > She also fired the adored-by-the-community, naturally beautiful, clean-faced, flat-shoed, natural-haired librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons. Too bad the Wasilla community attacked Palin over it and she had to eat crow and renege. It also involved Palin’s indication of an interest in censoring library books and Emmons said her response to that would be a call to the ACLU. In response to the community, Emmons stayed on and “tolerated” Palin for a number of months afterward before she took a job as the library director elsewhere in the state. That represented a tremendous loss for all the libraries in the Mat-Su Valley. From December 7, 2006. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/126 "2008-09-05T23:45:23Z")
Apparently, this is the quote from the 12/18/1996 issue of _The Frontiersman_: > [@](#): > > “Emmons said Palin asked her > outright if she could live with censorship of library books.” Emmons said, “This is different than a normal > book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy…She was asking me how I would deal with her > saying a book can’t be in the library.” Palin said in response, “Many issues were discussed, both > rhetorical and realistic in nature.” The actual Frontiersman website doesn’t search that far back, and I’m pretty sure my local library doesn’t have the microfilm. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/127 "2008-09-06T01:27:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’d like to see more original sources on the book banning angle, but it seems Emmons was indeed fired, according to the [Anchorage Daily News](http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AS&p_theme=as&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F793F7424CACDD2&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM) article of Jan 31, 1997. > > Emmons was rehired a day later, but perhaps this is what you mean by she wasn’t really fired? I don’t think she was fired, just that a letter to that intent was given to her. I have don’t have much doubt that if she and Palin had not come a compromise she would have been fired. I’ll bet a nickel her seniority wasn’t reset to 0, they didn’t cut her a final check, then go through all the proc involved in re-hiring etc. In other words, a real and credible threat to fire. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/128 "2008-09-06T01:29:41Z")
So, based on all available evidence she launched her mayoral career in a town of 5000 by sacking or trying to sack a bunch of the city staff because they didn’t ‘support her’. Did it ever occur to her to work with them and earn their respect instead of launching straight into being a paranoid autocrat? Hope she picked up a management book or two since then. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/129 "2008-09-06T02:34:32Z")
I like that the fact that Palin fired everyone who might oppose her is a defense of her. That and the fact that she was unsuccessful in her book banning attempts. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/130 "2008-09-06T02:37:19Z")
She hasn’t. Matanuska Maid is another example of the fire-and-rehire with cronies thing happening, apparently. I linked to it in ‘who is Sarah Palin’. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/131 "2008-09-06T08:00:03Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I like that the fact that Palin fired everyone who might oppose her is a defense of her. That and the fact that she was unsuccessful in her book banning attempts. No, she fired everyone. In other words she asked the entire senior mgt staff to submit a letter of resignation, much like a new Prez does with the old Cabinet. Of course, is that nessesary in a small town? Seems a little odd. But also there was no attempt to ban any book. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/132 "2008-09-06T09:16:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But also there was no attempt to ban any book. You repeating that doesn’t make it so. to many sources have been cited that say she tried. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/133 "2008-09-06T11:54:52Z")
I just heard on CNN about what Sarah Palin herself has to say about this. Wait a minute. No I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/134 "2008-09-06T11:59:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Couldn’t care less. Yea who needs freedom of speech and freedom of the press? Those concepts are Unamerican! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/135 "2008-09-06T12:32:45Z")
And it doesn’t really matter what the truth is. They can just say it isn’t so and that makes it right. I’m so fooled by it. I have noticed that no one from the town itself has come forward to say that this incident didn’t take place. I see no reason why there wouldn’t be minutes of the City Council meetings anyway. No one seems to be asking for proof. **Lissener** , I learned more from your link on Palin than everything else put together. Excellent! > [@](#): > > **Jodi** : Jodi: Again, it is very common, in the private sector as well as in government but especially in government, that media inquiries are handled in a coordinated manner by a designated (high-ranking) person, and everyone else is told they are not to talk to the media. I never had the right to comment on work-related public business when I worked for government; I would have been fired had I done so. IANAL. I can understand that you cannot speak in an official capacity on your government job. But I have a hard time believing that you are not allowed to talk to the media or that you don’t have the right to comment on work related issues. I was a teacher and the administration at our school told us the same thing because we were going through some difficult times – lots of teachers’ cars stolen, teachers mugged when they first got to school, etc. Yet the principal didn’t want it reported to the police because of the bad publicity which reflected on him. So teachers began to leak it to the media. The principal told us that we were not allowed to speak with the media. (A reporter from the newspaper told me that that was unConstitutional when I talked with him about it. Of course, he wasn’t an attorney either.) But I would think that freedom of speech would kick in here as long as you make it clear that you are speaking for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/136 "2008-09-06T14:44:00Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Because she was stopped. Like she will be stopped again. Because voters won’t put her in the White House. Because she’s a book banner. See how it works? Stopped again. See now, that’s where things get fuzzy. One would be on reasonably solid ground to believe that she inquired. Going further than that to say she would have done it, goes further than we can assume without knowing motivations. Also, you don’t know McCain won’t win, like me, you just hope not. I don’t agree with the banning o’ books, I don’t agree with a lot of what Palin has to say, but there are bigger fights to pick with the woman than one about something she never really did. Like CNN last night picking apart the jet-on-ebay deal. Nitpicky bullshit. She put the plane on ebay, it didn’t sell. The story is ripe for speechifyin, but it’s not being taken as a point-by-point factual account. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/137 "2008-09-06T17:08:49Z")
> [@bdgr](#): > > You repeating that doesn’t make it so. to many sources have been cited that say she tried. Many cites, _one source_- Kilkenny. Anyway, Whack-a-Mole did yeoman service and posted this to the GD thread: S\*eems the Frontiersman paper has been besieged with requests for this article so they posted it yesterday (link below). From the article I think it is clear the Palin DID talk about banning books and on more than one occasion because rather than deny the allegations she calls the remark “rhetorical”. I might buy that if Palin asked once but she broached the topic more than once. Why would anyone ask a “rhetorical” (I am using quotes since as noted it is an improper usage of the word but I think we know what she meant) question more than once over the course of a few weeks? Not to mention it is a helluva thing to ask rhetorically of a librarian except over drinks in a bar. Anyway, read it and make up your own mind.\* Quote: FROM THE ARCHIVE: Palin: Library censorship inquiries ‘Rhetorical’ By PAUL STUART Published on Friday, September 5, 2008 5:18 PM AKDT Editor’s note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library. WASILLA – In the wake of strong reactions from the city’s library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.” Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association. The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship. SOURCE: [http://www.frontiersman.com/articles...9379155484.txt](http://www.frontiersman.com/articles...9379155484.txt) My response: "OK, if this is true then Palin’s off the hook _“Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.”_ If she was just testing Emmons as to what Emmons would do, it’s perfectly OK. So, given this source, I think it’s over. Mind you, I am still a little suspicious, but given as that was 12 years ago, I think this is the best we could come up with." ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/138 "2008-09-06T18:22:32Z")
Deth, a wise person would read the cite before posting it somewhere else. > [@](#): > > But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all� the city’s department heads as a way of expressing loyalty. > > “This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/139 "2008-09-06T19:10:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > "OK, if this is true then Palin’s off the hook _“Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.”_ If she was just testing Emmons as to what Emmons would do, it’s perfectly OK. You’re deluding yourself. A mayor doesn’t ask a librarian _three times_ what she would do if the mayor wanted to censor a book just for shits and giggles. She was testing the waters to impose censorship on the library. The fact that she ultimately was unsuccessful in pursuing it further just means that we’re all better off when Sarah Palin is not given any power to wield. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089/140 "2008-09-06T23:37:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Deth, a wise person would read the cite before posting it somewhere else. "She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.” which is exactly what I’d want a chief executive to ask. I’d then expect the asnwer to be “no, sorry”, which is what Emmons said, then Palin did not try to force the issue. \*There was no attmept to ban any book.\*Sounds exactly right to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/palin-supporters-did-you-know-shes-a-book-banner/462089.md?page=8)